Parents no longer allowed to sing at parent and baby groups

[Layladylay234]

I have no energy left to say how much this angers me

My musical theatre classes have been unable to sing for a year, used to be one of my most popular classes at my dance school but it's hard to keep children's interest when it is essentially just another dance class with no singing at the moment. Sing to your kid at home, clap along to the music at baby class, or bang a drum, tambourine, the spoons, whatever. Not singing is affecting my livelihood, however I am not furious / seething/ livid or whatever, and I think your reaction is totally OTT.

In typical government fashion the guidance was updated today.

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assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/974378/Actions_for_early_years_and_childcare_providers_during_the_coronavirus__COVID-19__outbreak.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2pOEy8idjp_HV1QhghRhQnGrsxGpcs318TfKjn9h66NXOtLFKP7VZ_TJs

OP I agree with you. Babies and children really are getting a rubbish deal at the moment. DD’s music class should be interesting when it finally restarts then, given the whole setup is based around group singing. It was bad enough with us all spaced out in masks and the teacher’s muffled singing from behind a visor.

And to all the singing naysayers, you do realise that singing to and with your child is a crucial part of early child development? Just pick up any leaflet you’re given by NCT or various children’s charities and you’ll see how fundamental shares rhyme and music is to socialisation and communication skills. Libraries and Sure Start centres offered free Rhyme Time sessions for a reason.

Absolutely heartbreaking for choirs too. Singing is such an important part of being human.

It is true that singing is a valuable part of a child's development, I worked with children (until last year) and singing was a huge part of my day.
The thing is the singing bit can be just the parent and baby at home - that is the crucial bit for the baby (or even my 10 year old....who has been getting me to try to replicate the music lesson he has missed all year, being home!!)
The group bit is important for the parents, and I'm really glad that these are available for the parents to see others, even if the singing isn't happening.

With everything that is going on in the world at the moment, surely mums not singing at baby group is not something to get worked up or angry about

Thing is, taken in isolation mums not singing at a baby group is a trivial little thing. So is adults wearing masks in all indoor spaces. So is babies and young children not being taken on public transport/into shops and cafes. So is kids not being taught how to swim. So is libraries being shut. So is babies and toddlers not mixing with their peers or extended family. So is playgrounds and soft plays being closed for long periods.

But the cumulative effect of all those small things, when you’re a small child whose brain is rapidly developing and making millions of neural connections that could potentially impact them for a lifetime, is pretty bloody huge. A few years from now we’ll be seeing the impact of all this on this cohort of kids, and it won’t be pretty.

And to all the singing naysayers, you do realise that singing to and with your child is a crucial part of early child development?

But you CAN sing with and to your child at home as much and as often as you want. You can dance too!

It is stupid. Put your mask on. Sing away.

I never really took mine to baby groups as I hated them. Even though I selfishly deprived them of fellow babies , guess what, they've turned out to be perfectly normal and well developed, socially sensitive children.

But you CAN sing with and to your child at home as much and as often as you want. You can dance too

Having worked across many educational settings in the less privileged areas of London, I think you’ll find a surprising number of people don’t have the basic knowledge needed to do this. Often the whole point of shared singing sessions is to teach these skills and reach those children who would never otherwise hear nursery rhymes or age-appropriate songs at home.

As ever, it will be the least advantaged kids who lose out the most from this.

As ever, it will be the least advantaged kids who lose out the most from this.

Exactly. It’s amazing how many people on MN fail to grasp this.

Only on MN are people so vile towards parents and children. Yes it’s a piss take to ban singing, it’s enough already, people are vaccinated and it either works or it doesn’t. Living like this is moronic at this point.

you’ll find a surprising number of people don’t have the basic knowledge needed to do this.

A number of people don’t know how to sing?

Having worked across many educational settings in the less privileged areas of London, I think you’ll find a surprising number of people don’t have the basic knowledge needed to do this.

They can't sing?

@RMRM

I never really took mine to baby groups as I hated them. Even though I selfishly deprived them of fellow babies , guess what, they've turned out to be perfectly normal and well developed, socially sensitive children.

Quite!

I've never come across any parents who do not know how to sing and dance with their child and I know people from all backgrounds. Practically everyone at last listens to the radio, sings along and prances around with child joining in. It's nothing to do with privilege.

I honestly had no idea people sang and danced at baby groups and the very idea of having to do that in the company of unknown people fills me with terror.

There were no 'baby groups' years ago and children managed, met other kids, learned nursery rhymes and sang without their mother having to go through torture once a week.

And yet cramming onto overcrowded public transport is totally allowed. Ridiculous

I love singing in church, I really miss it. But not angry about it.

Yes, we often used to have children who didn't know or hadn't heard some nursery rhymes familiar to us...but often the children loved singing other songs their family had sung, or even the ever present Baby Bloody Shark!!

It does sound as though there is some singing happening in childcare settings, so hopefully this will continue and the baby singing and bit of a sing song at the end of mum and baby groups will be back soon.

They can't sing

Don’t be disingenuous. They can sing.

However some parents know literally no nursery rhymes or children’s songs and will just sing whatever they’ve heard on Radio 1 that day - which is obviously fine for fun and parent-child bonding but hardly ideal for language acquisition.

Others are recently arrived immigrants or speak very little English and only know songs in their home language, so wish to access baby/toddler groups to learn English songs and rhymes.

As well as language development, group singing is also about recognising social cues and learning group bonding behaviour. You’re not getting that from singing among to Ed Sheeran in your kitchen.

The EYFS and KS1 curriculum builds on prior knowledge of basic nursery rhymes and songs for learning eg about rhyming words and story structure, so kids who have had lots of experience of this will have an advantage.

Basically it’s important and has value beyond a nice singalong with your little one.

I know someone who was earning their living as a Singer Songwriter before lockdown. Doing very well - had loads of bookings throughout 2020 Then .... nothing. No income. Self employed so no furlough. Not being doing it long enough to have accounts to show the losses. Just nothing. zero . zilch.
I know another young person who was just setting out as an actor/singer / dancer . Then, nothing. No work for over a year and no likelihood of much for a long time to come.

I kind of think not being able to sing for a few minutes at a baby group needs to be put in perspective here.

Of course - these are only singing related sadnesses. Both these people realise they are alive and healthy.

Have my first official MN grip, OP.

Good. I always used to leave before the song time at the end.

Of course this is a pretty trivial grievance in the context of all lockdown-related grievances. It's even trivial in the context of all baby- and lockdown-related grievances, and all music- and lockdown-related grievances.

However, it's one of those lockdown rules that comes across as so much micromanagement of daily life. Are we really supposed to believe that parents and babies being around in the same space for an hour or so, possibly sharing equipment and toys, definitely with little ones crying/shouting, is "safe" or at least its benefits outweigh its risks, but that a quick round of wheels on the bus where the parents join in suddenly tips the balance into unsafe and risky? What is the level of danger that tips the balance? Are we meant to believe someone has actually done a controlled experiment to prove this, or do SAGE have a finely-tuned wheels on the bus-related model that they're basing their recommendations on?

@89redballoons

Of course this is a pretty trivial grievance in the context of all lockdown-related grievances. It's even trivial in the context of all baby- and lockdown-related grievances, and all music- and lockdown-related grievances.

However, it's one of those lockdown rules that comes across as so much micromanagement of daily life. Are we really supposed to believe that parents and babies being around in the same space for an hour or so, possibly sharing equipment and toys, definitely with little ones crying/shouting, is "safe" or at least its benefits outweigh its risks, but that a quick round of wheels on the bus where the parents join in suddenly tips the balance into unsafe and risky? What is the level of danger that tips the balance? Are we meant to believe someone has actually done a controlled experiment to prove this, or do SAGE have a finely-tuned wheels on the bus-related model that they're basing their recommendations on?

Exactly! It’s a non issue to control but will bring misery to many.

Have to say I love people who have never had their first baby in a pandemic letting everyone know that they don’t need xyz groups/ meet ups etc that they most likely took for granted when they had kids!

We've been able to sing in the parent and toddler groups that I went to last year (between August-January). The Early Years Alliance say that singing is still allowed after outdoor groups return on 29 March/indoor groups from 12 April. Govt guidance clearly says "Singing and wind instrument playing can be undertaken in line with this and other guidance".

At the indoor classes, we wore masks and sat on foam mats 2m apart, but sang with the teacher. No shared instruments or toys. Also did some outdoor classes with foam mats and a big circle, no masks, again with parents and toddlers singing songs.

I've already rebooked for classes starting again on April 12 and it has been stated that they will be singalong classes as usual, with masks, social distancing measures as expected similar to before the latest lockdown.

@89redballoons

Of course this is a pretty trivial grievance in the context of all lockdown-related grievances. It's even trivial in the context of all baby- and lockdown-related grievances, and all music- and lockdown-related grievances.

However, it's one of those lockdown rules that comes across as so much micromanagement of daily life. Are we really supposed to believe that parents and babies being around in the same space for an hour or so, possibly sharing equipment and toys, definitely with little ones crying/shouting, is "safe" or at least its benefits outweigh its risks, but that a quick round of wheels on the bus where the parents join in suddenly tips the balance into unsafe and risky? What is the level of danger that tips the balance? Are we meant to believe someone has actually done a controlled experiment to prove this, or do SAGE have a finely-tuned wheels on the bus-related model that they're basing their recommendations on?

Yes, actually. There has been quite a lot of studying the aerosol effect from singing

No I don't think spending an hour in a hall with lots of other Mums and babies or toddlers is very wise, but that has been balanced against the fact that spending your first year with a new baby in isolation , and the risk assessment for that has come out in favour of allowing the get together with restrictions in place.
Removing those restrictions makes it even less safe, and tips the balance to it not being a safe activity.
Each person then has to judge the gains or benefit to them against the potential risk.

Like people have to judge in all sort of scenarios.
I'm knee deep in risk assessments for activities at the moment. It is a difficult thing for people to call, but it helps if they follow the scientific and medical advice.