EU threaten to cut off vaccine supply to the UK 2

[Baileysforchristmas]

As the other thread is full

www.politico.eu/article/commission-proposes-six-week-vaccine-export-ban-amid-fears-of-trade-war/

@Haffiana

Good grief.

Has anyone got a link to the actual UK - Astrazeneca contract? Or to the parts that state that it must supply the UK BEFORE it supplies the EU as stated in this thread?

The EU - Astrazeneca contract is readily available and is published on the EU website.

You were on a thread earlier in the year that was specifically about the contracts, iirr.

And you cavilled over everything then too.

You have definitely been on the later threads about them. Yet here you are, same username, same topic, same questions.

@Haffiana

Haven't got access to Google? Or do you routinely expect other people to do your leg work for you?

Yep I have googled. Can't find it. Can you?

Although, it's not going to help overturn the EU contract that states that the first 300 million doses must be produced within the EU.

The sad thing about this is the way UVdL has so quickly gone to the nuclear option. If she's shown some humility, admitted she'd screwed up and asked for help I can't help but think this could have been avoided.

well I was referring to the EU contract because that is where it is stated.

If you access to that, then go and read it.

@Haffiana - here is the redacted UK-AZ contract: www.contractsfinder.service.gov.uk/notice/2ce928f2-0e8b-48cd-b0e7-bccff514d281.
There are additional terms in the separate licensing agreement (not published) that both UK government and Pascal Soriot statements (at the time and since) suggest include the preferential supply to the UK. So this doesn't actually tell you everything.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Yes, because the same incorrect 'us and them' rubbish keeps coming up.

The thing that keeps getting overlooked in this spat is that the vaccines are right now a zero sum game. X country getting them right now means that Y country can't get them. There aren't enough. The EU is considered as doing badly in its supply and distribution, and yet is ahead of probably 80-90% of countries in the world.

The EU politicians certainly haven't covered themselves in glory with this, but then neither has the UK with - in quite a few quarters - its triumphalism and I'm alright Jack mentality.

We need everybody getting vaccines as quickly as possible.

[quote Haffiana]@CuriousaboutSamphire

Yes, because the same incorrect 'us and them' rubbish keeps coming up.[/quote]
Well she has a point, I've personally mentioned to you several times about the distinction between 5.1 initial doses and 5.4 additional doses, but you never seem to reply about it.

[quote Haffiana]@CuriousaboutSamphire

Yes, because the same incorrect 'us and them' rubbish keeps coming up.[/quote]
You've had the links to both contracts;links to some initial legal ponderings; links to Belgian law interpretation; links to all sorts of discussion and interpretation.

You ask the same question you get the same answer.

Set out the detail of your understanding and point out where you know differently.

Might get you further.

@SaskiaRembrandt
I agree to an extent, but with all the British jingoism and Union Jack waving in the EU parliament prior to Brexit, issues like this were going to become sensitive. Her "going nuclear" may be wrong, but the British jingoism prior to Brexit coupled with their current vaccine gloating has arguably pushed them into recipocrating the playground mentality.
Don't get me wrong, I think the EU has handled this badly on more than one level - but Britain was fine playing playground politics the past 3 years... and now suddenly it wants grown ups and accountability.

@Cam77

The thing that keeps getting overlooked in this spat is that the vaccines are right now a zero sum game. X country getting them right now means that Y country can't get them. There aren't enough. The EU is considered as doing badly in its supply and distribution, and yet is ahead of probably 80-90% of countries in the world.

The EU politicians certainly haven't covered themselves in glory with this, but then neither has the UK with - in quite a few quarters - its triumphalism and I'm alright Jack mentality.

We need everybody getting vaccines as quickly as possible.

Again, everyone would agree with you were it not for the misinformation about efficacy, stockpiling, loss of vaccines etc.

But the thought of 'sharing' with a storeroom isn't all that appealing.

@Cam77

The thing that keeps getting overlooked in this spat is that the vaccines are right now a zero sum game. X country getting them right now means that Y country can't get them. There aren't enough. The EU is considered as doing badly in its supply and distribution, and yet is ahead of probably 80-90% of countries in the world.

The EU politicians certainly haven't covered themselves in glory with this, but then neither has the UK with - in quite a few quarters - its triumphalism and I'm alright Jack mentality.

We need everybody getting vaccines as quickly as possible.

What has the U.K. done wrong?

Its vaccine procurement strategy was good and using contracts as basis for delivery

The U.K. government has also not retaliated nor made provoking statements. The opposite in fact.

I think people post as bad as each other as they want it to be the case rather than is.

@Flywheel

The EU contract says they will make best efforts to supply AND that they have no other contracts preventing them from doing so. UK contract says UK first. Clearly a contradiction. AZ already breaking EU contract, but to keep them happy would have to break UK contract. AZ are a joke. All parties need to negotiate and reach a compromise.

There is no contradiction though.

EU Contract is with Astra Zeneca AB. Astra Zeneca AB doesn't have a contract with the UK hence the comment that they have no other contracts preventing them from doing so looks to be correct.

UK has a contract with Astra Zeneca UK.

Two different legal entities and two different legal contracts with different contractual obligations.

Why has this anything to do with UK ? Contract is with the vaccine companies. UK just paid for the development (& set up of factories all over the world at cost) for one of them. Why is EU taking this out on UK ?
And lots of those 29 million 'found' vaccines were supposed to go to COVAX. Poor countries who need it. Not rich ones who can't negotiate a contract and then moan about the outcome.
I imagine AZ and Pfizer are currently with their lawyers.

[quote Cam77]@SaskiaRembrandt
I agree to an extent, but with all the British jingoism and Union Jack waving in the EU parliament prior to Brexit, issues like this were going to become sensitive. Her "going nuclear" may be wrong, but the British jingoism prior to Brexit coupled with their current vaccine gloating has arguably pushed them into recipocrating the playground mentality.
Don't get me wrong, I think the EU has handled this badly on more than one level - but Britain was fine playing playground politics the past 3 years... and now suddenly it wants grown ups and accountability.[/quote]
I don't think it's helpful to speak about British jingoism or make statements about Britain as one homogenous entity in which everyone thinks, says and does the same thing. I'm one of the people who voted to remain, and there are millions more like me who do not behave like that.

And there are jingoistic elements in many EU countries.

AFAIC, the problem here is not the EU - plenty of EU politicians are angry about this too - it's a group led by Ursula von der Leyen, who took control of vaccine procurement, made a hash of it, and now won't admit that they did.

The EU politicians certainly haven't covered themselves in glory with this, but then neither has the UK with - in quite a few quarters - its triumphalism and I'm alright Jack mentality.

I think most of what could be seen as triumphalism was sheer bloody relief at getting out of our horrendous situation and astonished delight that the gov had started getting things right finally. And frankly we're not alright Jack, are we? We're in lockdown, many of us have lost our livings and have unattended health problems. We've lost people we love. What's alright about any of that?

I think the UK government has been remarkably restrained in it's comments

The UK hasn't actually behaved badly. The govt has heavily invested in a not for profit vaccine which is being shared with the world. The UK has helped develop supply lines here and in the EU. It has continued to supply the Pfizer components.
I've been really critical of our government over do much of their handling of this pandemic, but I honestly think they've done a really good job with vaccine investment and procurement. All I'm seeing from the EU is trying to screw the price down on a not for profit vaccine and constant carping because of the contract they signed.
The UK is allowed to feel proud of our roll out - our scientists and NHS and the team who procured our supplies have done a cracking job.

Are you telling me the French wouldn't have been smug as fuck if Sanofi hadn't been a failure?

@MarshaBradyo

The U.K. government has also not retaliated nor made provoking statements. The opposite in fact.

I think people post as bad as each other as they want it to be the case rather than is.

I agree.

UK media outlets are perhaps triumphalist, but I would suggest the government and the general populace are not. What would you suggest Cam77, that we suppress vaccination data? Are other countries getting a hard time for being expedient?

We (UK plc), are actually doing a pretty good job in trying to tackle Covid from a vaccine and treatment perspective. Actually, I would suggest we don't make enough noise about the amount of time, money, effort and altruism has gone into vaccine development and drugs trials. Oxford/AZ is a cheap, easy to use, internationally expeditable vaccine. The Recovery Trial is the world's largest Covid drugs trial. React and Zoe (UK Universities) have supplied excellent real time data on Covid. The UK populace queued up to volunteer for vaccine and drugs trials. Our genomic sequencing, COG-UK (Cambridge Uni) is doing the majority of the worlds Covid genomic sequencing.

Sorry, but I think we should make more noise about what we are going than less, and it certainly isn't an "I'm all right Jack" scenario, far from it.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously well put. EU seems to have an attack of the green eyed monster so lashing out. Rather than asking for help.
Alright Jack ? What a callous thing to say when we are still in lockdown and have lost so many people. We just see a way out which the EU want to stop. Bastards seems a fair analysis.

@MaMaLa321

I think the UK government has been remarkably restrained in it's comments

In the 30s, Punch suggested a rewording of the original 'Jingo' song:

We don't want you to fight but by Jingo if you do,
We will probably issue a joint memorandum suggesting a mild disapproval of you.

I'll also say that if we (the UK) were still EU members, I'd be writing a strongly worded letter to my MEP demanding to know why a bunch of penny-pinching incompetents were allowed to negotiate one of the most important contracts in the EU's history.

I'd suggest those who still live in EU member states follow suit.

Seriously you think this is acceptable and a way to behave in the EU 😮

www.politico.eu/article/eu-sends-italian-police-to-find-astrazeneca-coronavirus-vaccines/