EMA say AZ is safe.

[pinkearedcow]

Such good news!

It's not that I don't trust vaccine manufacturers, I just know they're human and they were put under massive pressure to save the world with a vaccine. The idea that they couldn't have made a single mistake, that they couldn't possibly cause any problems at any point, is fucking bonkers frankly

Surely the very fact that millions and millions and millions have been vaccinated and are not dropping like flies is fairly good evidence that for the vast majority of people the vaccine is safe?

@pinkearedcow

It's not that I don't trust vaccine manufacturers, I just know they're human and they were put under massive pressure to save the world with a vaccine. The idea that they couldn't have made a single mistake, that they couldn't possibly cause any problems at any point, is fucking bonkers frankly

Surely the very fact that millions and millions and millions have been vaccinated and are not dropping like flies is fairly good evidence that for the vast majority of people the vaccine is safe?

With the swine flu vaccine Pandemrix the neurological problems didn't develop until months after vaccination.

The fact that people aren't 'dropping like flies' means nothing. Vaccinations have only just begun, in real terms. Adverse effects could take years to show themselves.

[quote Scrumble]@notrub please do you have a source for the stats re: COVID death rate for ages 4-50? And also long COVID risk? I've been looking for this but cannot find reliable data?[/quote]
The figures are rough averages obtained from various sources.

e.g. Worldometers put it at 0.4%
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
I read something from IC the other week which put it at 0.5% - I've seen others put it higher and some lower, but 2 in 200 is a reasonable ballpark.

For long-covid - all of the reports I've read on it suggest the incidence is about 10% - that includes all cases that qualify - I haven't seen a breakdown within this of different types - I think the data isn't available yet.

For hospitalisations, that's from ONS but I can't find the source right now - there's a good write-up on the spread of cases here though:
www.bbc.com/news/health-55586994

What's often lost with all the focus on deaths is that younger patients ARE being hospitalised - the difference is they recover much more frequently than older patients.

That should have said 1 in 200

I may be a thicko but if Jonathan Van Tam says he'd let his mum have it, it's good enough for me.

They have said that younger women seem to be more “at risk” of the blood clotting issues and one of the doctors hypothesised that the Uk has seen less cases of these clot events because we have vaccinated more elderly unlike the EU who will have vaccinated more young.
This worries me. I'm in Italy and the elderly have been vaccinated without any problems. However, when they started vaccinating the police, teachers and health workers we had these problems with young, fit people.

I've seen people saying that the pill or aspirin can cause some serious side effects, which is true and I agree that no medicine is 100% safe. The difference is that you're not ENCOURAGED to take the pill or aspirin for others. You do that based on your personal choice and risk assessment. I understand that the vaccine is different and it's supposed to protect the wider community of people and not just you, but is it ethical to ask people with otherwise low risk of getting seriously ill with covid, like healthy 20 or 30 years old, who very well may be already immune? I feel like once we start vaccinating lower ages we must really weight risk vs benefit based on real-time data and personal health assessment. I believe the vaccine is overall safe, but as we vaccinating more people and getting more information about possible adverse reaction and side effects the choice to be vaccinated should be made on more individual basis.

The fact that people aren't 'dropping like flies' means nothing. Vaccinations have only just begun, in real terms. Adverse effects could take years to show themselves

OK. I tell you what, I am going to come back to this thread this time next year and we shall see. But I bet you will then say it's too soon.

I am no scientist and this is very simplistic of me and I may be totally wrong, but I don't think vaccines hang around in your system for years. They just "teach" your immune system to respond and remember that response to a particular threat.

Of course it is safe.

The main disadvantage for the EU of the AZ vaccine is they are reliant on countries like India to supply it.

And currently India is not supplying it.

But Pfizer is made in the EU!

So it is a no-brainer for the EU to engineer a situation whereby the EU simply MUST retain all the Pfizer for its own use.

[quote notrub]@TheDailyCarbunkle

I'd ask for sources for ANY of that nonsense, but I know I won't get any - or I'll be told to google it myself.

The data IS available, if you are able to understand it - maybe that's the problem you're having here??

I still find the arrogance of anti-vaxxers amazing...[/quote]
I'm not sure why you're trying to insult me but I'll ignore it because it's just silly.

This is the risk calculator that indicates your actual risk from covid based on your health and age: www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/how-to-find-out-your-risk-when-it-comes-to-coronavirus

Unsurprisingly, if you are a fit and healthy 49 year old, your risk is much much much lower than if you're a 29 year old with multiple serious illnesses.

The difference is that you're not ENCOURAGED to take the pill or aspirin for others. You do that based on your personal choice and risk assessment.
True. I can't take the pill because I am at high risk of blood clots. I don't want to take a vaccine where I am in the high risk group! That doesn't make me an anti-vaxxer. Some of the comments on this thread are very dismissive of why people are worried. Saying "Of course it's safe" is just ridiculous and you don't know that.

@pinkearedcow

The fact that people aren't 'dropping like flies' means nothing. Vaccinations have only just begun, in real terms. Adverse effects could take years to show themselves

OK. I tell you what, I am going to come back to this thread this time next year and we shall see. But I bet you will then say it's too soon.

I am no scientist and this is very simplistic of me and I may be totally wrong, but I don't think vaccines hang around in your system for years. They just "teach" your immune system to respond and remember that response to a particular threat.

No, vaccines don't hang around in your system for years. I'm not sure what your point is there? Are you saying that because they don't hang around in your system for years, they can't affect you at a later stage?

If that's what you're saying I can see where you're coming from but it's not accurate. Measles doesn't hang around in your system for years but it can still do neurological damage while it is in your system that you're not aware of for a long time afterwards. Halperidol (a psychoactive drug) doesn't hang around in your system for years but it can cause tardive dyskinesia (a neurological disorder) years after you take it.

Equally the swine flu vaccine Pandemrix didn't hang around in anyone's system but some people didn't develop narcolepsy until more than a year after they were vaccinated.

There is every chance the vaccine is totally fine. What I'm questioning is the total faith, the assertion there couldn't possibly be anything wrong. Of course something could go wrong. People judging whether to take the vaccine at least have to consider that.

@Gerla

They have said that younger women seem to be more “at risk” of the blood clotting issues and one of the doctors hypothesised that the Uk has seen less cases of these clot events because we have vaccinated more elderly unlike the EU who will have vaccinated more young. This worries me. I'm in Italy and the elderly have been vaccinated without any problems. However, when they started vaccinating the police, teachers and health workers we had these problems with young, fit people.

False

The UK has vaccinated our entire health care team as well as carers and all at risk patients under 65.

Young people were vaccinated in the trials, we have vaccinated many health care workers. No problems have yet been seen in the uk that would outweigh the risk of covid, even in the young.

So far the only people I know who has decided not to be vaccinated are either pregnant or have no understanding of science and have been misled by anti-vax propaganda. Those who are pregnant will now be re-examining the risks, because there is being to be evidence that it may be desirable to vaccinate during pregnancy.

I dont have a problem with people considering their individual risk, butt hey should also consider who they might infect, If they dont have a scientific background themselves they do need to be very careful who they listen to!

[quote Scrumble]@notrub please do you have a source for the stats re: COVID death rate for ages 4-50? And also long COVID risk? I've been looking for this but cannot find reliable data?[/quote]
Do you want global data, UK data or any othercountry - some are unrepresented but most have some data available.

Most of the data on the usual characteristics is available and some long covid stats have started to emerge

UK data

www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-reported-sars-cov-2-deaths-in-england/covid-19-confirmed-deaths-in-england-report

This is the risk calculator that indicates your actual risk from covid based on your health and age

FALSE

It attempts to guesstimate your increased risk during the pandemic - it includes your risk of actually contracting covid - which is currently low due lockdown.

Firstly, these tools do not account for factors that influence catching Covid-19 in the first place

Seriously, you're jumping into this, taking on the EMA, the WHO, arguing you know better, and you don't even understand what the information you're citing means.... it would be laughable were it not such serious misinformation.

@notrub....you are being hugely patient and casting pearls before swine if I may say so :)

it would be laughable were it not such serious misinformation. The only reason we all keep on replying.

We have to call bullshit when we read it. There are enough frightened people as it is, nobody needs to read such disinformation. Especially with a tone that brooks no dissent!

Damage is done by the spiteful EU. Too late now for backpedalling.

you are being hugely patient and casting pearls before swine if I may say so
Wow, are you trying to get people's backs up? Because comments like that are unlikely to win anyone round.

@Gerla

you are being hugely patient and casting pearls before swine if I may say so Wow, are you trying to get people's backs up? Because comments like that are unlikely to win anyone round.

I am merely commenting on Notrub's astute posts.....:)

...while comparing others to swine!

Does that cap fit?

indeed not....it is a metaphor from the Bible.

I am not calling anyone a swine!!

I am laughing as I type this! :)

I know where it's from! Still wouldn't use it if I didn't want to offend!