EU threatening to cut off supply of vaccines to UK

[Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady]

Because they've not got enough apparently (despite the fact that they've got a shit load of AZ stockpiled because they've mostly stopped using it)

This is really starting to piss me off now, and has someone who is due 2nd Pfizer jab in 8 weeks in starting to worry I won't get it!

They're threatening to stop supply to USA too.

Wankers

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/ursula-von-der-leyen-threatens-cut-off-covid-exports-uk-b924652.html

This article is so interesting

www.politico.eu/article/threats-but-few-details-as-european-commission-demands-reciprocity-in-vaccine-exports/

I find Irish meaning most interesting and more neutral.
I do think uk should give to Ireland.
I wouldn't be against that .
Or even if we sent some to papa new guini.
But I resent vaccines going to various parts Europe to be sat in fridges.

On the one hand we refuse send any from halix to UK but we haven't even asked and eu say if we were to ask we not getting any from there that its exclusive eu stock.
The article trying shift blame to az.
Europe has known about Netherlands for ages why dident they push az to apply ema approval sooner.
We have a unquantifiable number of doses there.
We both seem to think its part of our supply chain but eu seem think uk factories also part of their supply chain

The more I read the more I think eu will reject the comprise they will want all that the 🇳🇱 has.
I wonder what az will do next. They been pretty quiet lately.

Just because AZ didn’t for fill it’s order, doesn’t explain why France and Germany discredited the product just before the EMA approved it, even if they get more doses there not being used, the EU are doing nothing about that.

[quote Baileysforchristmas]This article is so interesting

www.politico.eu/article/threats-but-few-details-as-european-commission-demands-reciprocity-in-vaccine-exports/[/quote]
Really interesting article key points i took

Eu accepts some blame not not pushing for az apply authorise halix sooner.

France is only company that backs new laws under section 122 .
France and German have election to worry about.

The EU has no idea where 250 k vaccines bottled in Italy meant for Australia blocked in Italy have gone. How can you lose 250k vaccines?

The current export ban means all they can do is block exports so they sit in a warehouse. They can take their vaccines and redistribute and use them for the EU.
So yes its case of Australia cannot have its toys but the EU cannot play with them.

There favourite buzz word reciprocate.
Respond to an action with a corresponding action vin the dictionary and defined in article as UK sending finished vaccines or components.
We never stopped sending raw materials to make pfizer.
So accusations made last week that we had were untrue and now brushed over.

There only solution is authorise halix and take all doses.
But confused are they British stock.
Do halix not transfer az to any other countries outside Europe from that site.

I don't see how anything they done so far or potentially plan to do will be a massive boost to their vaccination campaign.
Granted I don't know what quantity Netherlands has produced.
I know UK have helped that factory with its production issues .
The exact levels if productivity at all 4 sites as hush hush.
UK alone we don't know what contracts AZ has with other 3rd countries and if anything at Netherlands was meant to go elsewhere not all for EU to raid and take or use as blackmail tool for the UK.

Its clear they have no plan. Thursday will be a total shit show.

I still think Boris thinks India be best bet.
Right now UK is not saying anything about az breaking contracts so I wonder who outsourced to India us directly or az as they wanted to fulfil UK contact which is different to eu.
They claim it was tall ask to eu but they try thier best ours has specific penalties.

We just have to hope and think uk greatest fear is pfizer and moderna are not blocked.

@CuriousaboutSamphire
And it isn't UK papers and SM discussing the Aldi Vaccine or reporting on the ever decreasing confidence in AZ.

Are you sure about that? As far as I can find this whole idea of the "Aldi Vaccine" was spread by a BBC correspondent claiming that she had been told that it was nicknamed that in Belgium. Can anybody actually point me to a Belgian source calling it that before her post, because I can't find any? And even afterwards, there are very few mentions of it outside of UK publications. (I can read French and Dutch.)

As for decreasing confidence: Yes, there is a problem in many European countries and it needs to be addressed, but the UK media are vastly exaggerating that. The fact that the rollout is slow has lots of reasons - people refusing AZ is a very minor part, it's mainly linked to logistics/bureacracy. It's simply not true that nobody wants AZ or that anything is going to waste. (If the shelf life is 6 month, not using stock within a few days of delivery won't make it go out of date!)

Friends in Europe have been calling AZ the Aldi vaccine for ages, at least since January. The also call it the supermarket own brand name

I know people that has been calling it the shit vaccine and that they want the good one in Spain

I was told about the Aldi vaccine by a friend in Holland. I didn't go looking for it's birthplace.

And the low rates of vaccine 'belief' are for all vaccines, reported across Europe as falling, mainly via vox pops done there, like our MORI, I think. That's partly as a result not politicians speaking and press reportage.

And the date issue is the number of vaccines not having left factories, a limbering mass vacc programme and the logistics. That and the sheer stupidity of all involved!

Look, I'm not saying the UK or it's media have everything right, are somehow miraculously honest in any of this. If you read most of my posts on the subject you'll see that I think many of them need to be brought to book, legally, for some of the things they print. I AM saying that every other country's press is the same.

I get it. In trying to offer information from my perspective it seems as though I am defending UK press etc. I am not. But I have given up with the caveat: you may think that from your perspective, this is mine. Somewhere in between lies a better version of the truth.

The EU need a plan to get vaccines in arms, I don’t see any mention of a plan to administer the vaccine. It’s not just about supply, our rollout from start to finish has been amazing, you get a text, book online, go to your local vaccine centre, in and out in 5 mins, 800,000 people vaccinated the other day, surely EU countries should be taking note and putting a plan together?

[quote Guinan]@CuriousaboutSamphire
And it isn't UK papers and SM discussing the Aldi Vaccine or reporting on the ever decreasing confidence in AZ.

Are you sure about that? As far as I can find this whole idea of the "Aldi Vaccine" was spread by a BBC correspondent claiming that she had been told that it was nicknamed that in Belgium. Can anybody actually point me to a Belgian source calling it that before her post, because I can't find any? And even afterwards, there are very few mentions of it outside of UK publications. (I can read French and Dutch.)

As for decreasing confidence: Yes, there is a problem in many European countries and it needs to be addressed, but the UK media are vastly exaggerating that. The fact that the rollout is slow has lots of reasons - people refusing AZ is a very minor part, it's mainly linked to logistics/bureacracy. It's simply not true that nobody wants AZ or that anything is going to waste. (If the shelf life is 6 month, not using stock within a few days of delivery won't make it go out of date!)[/quote]
Did you see the info from a poll on it being seen as unsafe?

It’s pretty low confidence in some countries. Not sure where from originally maybe someone will repost.

@Guinan

As for decreasing confidence: Yes, there is a problem in many European countries and it needs to be addressed, but the UK media are vastly exaggerating that. The fact that the rollout is slow has lots of reasons - people refusing AZ is a very minor part, it's mainly linked to logistics/bureacracy. It's simply not true that nobody wants AZ or that anything is going to waste. (If the shelf life is 6 month, not using stock within a few days of delivery won't make it go out of date!)

I'm in absolute agreement with you..especially the part about the exaggeration that's going on.

Here you go

www.politico.eu/article/trust-oxford-astrazeneca-coronavirus-vaccine-wanes-europe-survey/

"Here you go".

That's politico"s POV (and I accept they are generally even handed when it comes to UK/ EU) but it doesn't reflect what I and I suspect others have seen and heard locally.

Most folk I know in my neck of the woods are p'd off with the slow roll of the Vaccines and will certainly happily take any vaccine, including the AZ.

I can't speak for the whole of the EU but the impression that some outlets have given that e.g. the French are running for the hills en masse at the thought of being vaccinated is definitely an exaggeration.

I REALLY hope you are right, those opinion polls are no more likely not be accurate than any other.

It must be infuriating to watch all the fuss and fardling knowing there are vaccines available.

@Baileysforchristmas

The EU need a plan to get vaccines in arms, I don’t see any mention of a plan to administer the vaccine. It’s not just about supply, our rollout from start to finish has been amazing, you get a text, book online, go to your local vaccine centre, in and out in 5 mins, 800,000 people vaccinated the other day, surely EU countries should be taking note and putting a plan together?

The EU does not control the roll out of vaccinations, that is totally a national responsibility. Many countries have had various issues, including lack of supply. The only issue that is down the the EU is proccuring the vaccines.

Around half of the UK vaccinations are AZ, which is a lot more straightforward to administer due to how it is stored. I can only speak for France, but less than 20% of vaccines are AZ. GPs are currently administering AZ and pharmacies from now on which will greatly help. Plus, we are respecting the guidance from Pfizer on the gap between doses being 3 - 4 weeks which also slows down the total amount.

In my region, the elderly were queuing in their hundreds on a Sunday to get vaccinated with AZ. Yes, AZ is not considered as good as a Pfizer but people do want to be vaccinated and for the moment, there is not anywhere near enough supply to vaccinate the willing so while we need to build trust among the hesitant, once a large % have been safely vaccinated, most are likely to take it.

Nor are there millions of vaccines sitting in French fridges. I don't know if there is a UK equivalent but covidtracker.fr/vaccintracker/ is very accessible overview of what is happening in France and it clearly shows that vaccinations are tracking supplies.

The EU need a plan to get vaccines in arms,

As usuallydormant points out that's a national responsibility, not an EU one.

and being in France I have heard similar to "usually.." about the numbers at vaccination centres last weekend.

In my region, the elderly were queuing in their hundreds on a Sunday to get vaccinated with AZ. Yes, AZ is not considered as good as a Pfizer but people do want to be vaccinated and for the moment, there is not anywhere near enough supply to vaccinate the willing so while we need to build trust among the hesitant, once a large % have been safely vaccinated, most are likely to take it

That's good to hear @usuallydormant!

I thought politico was European media but its American owned and run journalist company but seems take fairly neutral balanced view on some things .

I think the actual poll was done by uk company's ipso mori or its results support the narrative that what eu leaders have said about az has damaged eu citizens confidence in it.
I wonder who commissioned the poll?
Politico?

Does anyone think all this non confirmed talk about travel bans and adding Europe to red list is another subtle warning from UK.
As no British tourist in Europe this summer would be economically damaging to some eu counties thinking Spain, Portugal and Greece mainly.

Not sure i trust the source. The sun uk tabloid.
But matt Hancock denying it on sky news.

France apparently has 5_10% Brazilian or south African varient in current wave.

www.thesun.co.uk/travel/14424190/uk-travel-ban-europe-red-list-airlines-axe-flight/

Ireland are against the EU's proposed export ban. Ireland learnt a harsh lesson about the EU over Article 16...

inews.co.uk/news/politics/ireland-backs-uks-calls-keep-vaccines-flowing-between-countries-in-spite-of-proposed-eu-export-ban-925625

I do think uk should give to Ireland

I believe UK offered to share with Ireland, back when we were beginning our vaccination campaign. Ireland turned down the offer, said they'd stick with the European programme.

I thought politico was European media but its American owned and run journalist company but seems take fairly neutral balanced view on some things

Yep, from what I've seen it tends to give the EU as much of a kicking as the UK/US or elsewhere..so as you say it ends up overall giving the appearance of being reasonably neutral and balanced.

The Dutch seem to be against a ban as well. Reported in Deutsche Welle:

www.dw.com/en/uks-boris-johnson-reassured-about-eu-vaccine-exports/a-56954055

Yes I know it’s not down to the EU for vaccine rollouts but surely these countries should be coming together with a plan and sharing it to get vaccines in arms, otherwise what’s the point as the whole of the Europe needs to vaccinated, instead of arguing with the UK. Please can you let me know where Australia’s 250k vaccines have gone if every vaccine is tracked?

Adrew Adonis, who is the hardest Remainer ever and is now a Rejoiner, is not impressed with UVdL:

It is nonsense to say the EU is incapable of acting fast & united on a controversial issue, compared to an individual state. Compare & contrast von der Leyen on the vaccine with Michel Barnier on Brexit. Barnier is a masterclass, von der Leyen a disasterclass

and

‘von der Leyen looks increasingly like the Theresa May of Brussels. The vaccine crisis shows an alarming power vacuum & absence of leadership in Europe’

@Baileysforchristmas - thankyou so much for posting that article. Interesting stuff, indeed.

I think the UK media are very bad, generally, about conveying internal EU politics. The tendency always is to portray the EU as a monolithic entity which, of course, is incorrect. So I found the placing of this row within the context of German electoral politics particularly interesting.

I also found interesting that it confirms my view that it's one thing to block exports, and it's quite another to requisition stock. This really does risk vaccines mouldering gently in a corner of the AZ warehouse (as appears to have happened to the 250k Australia-bound doses), which would be tragic for everyone.