Oxford vaccine - blood clots

[emilyjane29]

Hi all,

So I'm due to get my vaccine on Friday, due to vulnerability caused by some health issues.

Have been reading about the issues surrounding the Oxford vaccine, and at first I wasn't overly worried but now more and more countries are pausing it, I'm feeling quite anxious.

My health issues include being diagnosed with venous sinus thrombosis a couple of years ago, and as far as I can tell this is what they are saying is the risk here with the Oxford vaccine. I'm fine now and not on any blood thinners.

I get that it hasn't been pulled by the UK gov, but should I check with my GP just incase, if this would be a safe option for me? Or should I just go ahead, given I have been invited to get it anyway and if it wasn't safe surely I wouldn't have been put forward for it?

[quote oldegg123]Chat to your GP if you're worried, but definitely important to remember that there is no evidence AZ causes blood clots, but there is a huge amount showing that COVID infection itself does.

The guardian article below by one of Cambridge's top statisticians is super reassuring regarding explaining how the figures should be interpreted www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/15/evidence-oxford-vaccine-blood-clots-data-causal-links[/quote]
Thanks for the link, really helpful!!

[quote Speckledy]I also have a history of VTE, so have been following this story and my understanding is as mouldygrapes has explained it. Thrombosis UK also have a statement on their website thrombosisuk.org/news/post.php?s=2020-03-20-blood-clots-thrombosis-and-covid-19[/quote]
This is really helpful, thank you!

@CavernousScream

I can’t remember the name of the organisation, but the international blood clotting specialists doctors group have issued a statement recommending people still get it, even if they have had previous clotting issues. If you look that up you might find it reassuring. It doesn’t look impossibly that there is a very very rare link to a specific clotting issue, but its by no means certain. I think if I were you I’d still have it (I just did, with a strong family history of blood clots). Maybe take aspirin for a few days, just to make yourself feel you’re doing something?

Thank you.

I actually bought some aspirin today. I tend to take it before getting on long haul flights, just to feel like I'm doing something! So reckon I'll do the same here.

The pausing is more political than scientific. WHO are still happy with the az vaccine. All potential adverse events are being monitored and analyzed to look for potential rare side effects that couldn't have been identified at trial stage.they needed to count the blood clotting events to find out if the number was significant. The analysis has been done and the answer is no, not significant. It's a non-story blown up by lack of scientific understanding. Meanwhile in countries where public confidence in vaccines is low anyway, a politician who suspends a vaccine without rational cause will gain more votes than a politician who supports the vaccine programme while the misinformation is still circulating unchecked. Plus it's a lot easier to spin an announcement that you are "temporarily pausing the administration" of a drug that you don't have much supply of and know you aren't getting a steady high-volume supply for a few weeks, than it is to defend why supplies are inadequate. The suspension will magically be lifted, along with public information campaigns about how they are properly safe now, just when AZ are ready to start delivering the millions doses that have been ordered.

@KihoBebiluPute agreed, I think there must be a political angle here.
Vaccine misinformation is so hard to undo, and public confidence hard to restore once it’s taken a knock due to bad reporting, I agree re the lack of scientific understanding

@KihoBebiluPute

The pausing is more political than scientific. WHO are still happy with the az vaccine. All potential adverse events are being monitored and analyzed to look for potential rare side effects that couldn't have been identified at trial stage.they needed to count the blood clotting events to find out if the number was significant. The analysis has been done and the answer is no, not significant. It's a non-story blown up by lack of scientific understanding. Meanwhile in countries where public confidence in vaccines is low anyway, a politician who suspends a vaccine without rational cause will gain more votes than a politician who supports the vaccine programme while the misinformation is still circulating unchecked. Plus it's a lot easier to spin an announcement that you are "temporarily pausing the administration" of a drug that you don't have much supply of and know you aren't getting a steady high-volume supply for a few weeks, than it is to defend why supplies are inadequate. The suspension will magically be lifted, along with public information campaigns about how they are properly safe now, just when AZ are ready to start delivering the millions doses that have been ordered.

Spot on

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/15/europes-caution-over-oxford-vaccine-about-more-than-the-science

Germany, Italy, France, and Spain on Monday became the latest nations to halt the rollout, following moves by Ireland, Bulgaria, Denmark, Norway, and The Netherlands.

A few posters who have science degrees think they know more than the European Medicines Agency,

Let’s just wait and see shall we.

@Bluenightowl

Germany, Italy, France, and Spain on Monday became the latest nations to halt the rollout, following moves by Ireland, Bulgaria, Denmark, Norway, and The Netherlands.

A few posters who have science degrees think they know more than the European Medicines Agency,

Let’s just wait and see shall we.

The EMA themselves are not suggesting a causal link. Direct from their latest press release:

"Events involving blood clots, some with unusual features such as low numbers of platelets, have occurred in a very small number of people who received the vaccine. Many thousands of people develop blood clots annually in the EU for different reasons. The number of thromboembolic events overall in vaccinated people seems not to be higher than that seen in the general population."

"The EMA currently remains of the view that the benefits of the AstraZeneca vaccine in preventing COVID-19, with its associated risk of hospitalisation and death, outweigh the risks of side effects"

www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/emas-safety-committee-continues-investigation-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-thromboembolic-events

@Bluenightowl actually the European Medicines Agency have said the following:

'The number of thromboembolic events overall in vaccinated people seems not to be higher than that seen in the general population. EMA currently remains of the view that the benefits of the AZ vaccine...outweigh the risks of side effects’

It’s not the EMA who have pulled the vaccine, it’s individual countries, in contradiction with what the EMA are saying.

mouldygrapes

That is incorrect. They/we are extending the ban on Astra Zeneca pending EMA investigations.

@Bluenightowl no you are incorrect. Those countries have chosen to pause pending investigation. The EMA haven’t said to pause.
The EMA have said to continue

Reposting from previous poster - it’s all in here www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/emas-safety-committee-continues-investigation-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-thromboembolic-events

The point is there is an investigation pending.

It is good to be cautious. Hopefully it will resume and vaccinations can continue. It is too irresponsible to continue vaccinating populations and only stopping when more damage has potentially been done.

It is sensible to wait and see.

You accused “posters with science degrees” of thinking that they know more than the EMA, which is false, and have not retracted that - don’t hide behind “it’s best to be safe” when actually there is no evidence of causality here at all.
The rate of blood clots seen in vaccinated people is lower than the background risk of the general population of those countries, and lower than that expected of women prescribed the combined contraceptive pill, a drug which is known to cause blood clots. Why is it irresponsible to continue vaccination?

@Bluenightowl

The point is there is an investigation pending.

It is good to be cautious. Hopefully it will resume and vaccinations can continue. It is too irresponsible to continue vaccinating populations and only stopping when more damage has potentially been done.

It is sensible to wait and see.

Well no, it’s irresponsible to go against the advice of the EMA who themselves have instigated the investigation and have said to continue vaccinating.

I have no intention of retracting anything and I find it incredulous that posters are attempting to stamp out any negative posts about AZ. It is this sort of blinkered following at all costs that makes for eerie reading.
Why have the EMA instigated the investigation?

OP. 11 million have had AZ in the UK and there's been no increase in blood clots. In fact less than you'd expect.
The WHO says to continue with AZ
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56404542
Bluenightowl has already had AZ so doesn't need to worry about getting sick from covid due to the AZ suspension in her country

OP I wouldn’t have had AZ if the info had come to light previously. Thankfully our country has pressed pause for now. I am hoping it is precautionary because I am now very scared about what is in my body. I wish I hadn’t had it. We have been in lockdown for most of one year. Another few months would have been fine.

I definitely will not be taking a second jab of AZ.

I don’t care what the UK is saying/doing. I place my trust in all the European countries instead of just the UK.

@Bluenightowl

I have no intention of retracting anything and I find it incredulous that posters are attempting to stamp out any negative posts about AZ. It is this sort of blinkered following at all costs that makes for eerie reading. Why have the EMA instigated the investigation?

I have already linked EMAs statement above which explains why they are conducting an investigative. Here it is again: www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/emas-safety-committee-continues-investigation-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-thromboembolic-events

As I have said previously, the EMA themselves have advised vaccination continues- the countries listed are going against that guidance.

They are stopping potential harm until the investigations are complete. What is your problem with that?

You are in the UK where it is going ahead? Why does that make you feel uncomfortable? You are unaffected?

Go by what the WHO says op.

You are in the UK where it is going ahead? Why does that make you feel uncomfortable? You are unaffected?
Of course we're affected if you spread fear and misinformation and damage the uptake here.

Seems to be your aim

People can read what the EU are doing and make up their own minds. It’s called balance!

It is this sort of blinkered following at all costs that makes for eerie reading

If anything, your approach is blinkered. Those of us who have posted our views have done so on the basis of the available evidence which is backed by the WHO, EMA and many other scientific bodies.
We have also posted concerns about people getting unnecessarily spooked on the basis of flawed evidence and bad interpretation of science, which is exactly what you’ve demonstrated.
I’m not saying it isn’t ok to be a bit spooked, but please objectively look at the facts and read the evidence.

I place my trust in all the European countries instead of just the UK
Not “all” the European countries are doing this though. It’s not an EU wide approach and definitely not recommend by the EMA.

And you were wrong to sniff at those with degrees and say we thought we knew better than the EMA, but by all means double down