80,000 children suffering from long covid according to The Times

[TheOnlyKoiInAPondOfGoldfish]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/forgotten-children-living-long-covid-s0c6z0f20?shareToken=6c717c513ba7b50cbe110801c4fd27f8

I'm on the app so unable to copy text - but it seems that according to the ONS 13-15% of children who caught COVID still have symptoms over 5 weeks later, some of them life changing.

💐@TaxTheRatFarms@Babdoc
So infuriating to read the flippant comments from some contributors to this thread.

@reallyisthisallthereis

Post viral complications have long been known. Perhaps this will stop the pressure on workplaces and schools in expecting people to return too early. I was always under the impression that Viruses such as glandular fever can lead to long term conditions which is why it's important to not rush back to full time school.

Unfortunately, no work place is going to keep an employee on after 6 months / a year off sick.

Once the lockdown is over and people are expected back in workplaces, the long term effects of Covid will be forgotten.

Unfortunately, no work place is going to keep an employee on after 6 months / a year off sick
^
That's not true, I've known several colleagues in the NHS return well after 12 months sickness absence. It depends on the individual's situation.

the long term effects of Covid will be forgotten

Forgotten by who? Employers? Probably. The medical community? Hopefully not, although the track record with CFS/ME doesn’t fill me with confidence. People suffering from it? Very unlikely.

Not being antagonistic, I just can’t work out from your post if you’re saying that people with long covid will “stop making a big deal out of nothing” (not your quote but clearly some people’s opinion) when they realise they might lose their jobs, or that employers will refuse to accept that long covid is “real”.

Thanks l2b2 And on a parenting forum! Bit weird, but that’s people for you!

@l2b2

Unfortunately, no work place is going to keep an employee on after 6 months / a year off sick ^ That's not true, I've known several colleagues in the NHS return well after 12 months sickness absence. It depends on the individual's situation.

Most workplaces aren’t the NHS. Especially the private sector and small companies. You only have to read the Employment board on here to read about the people who are dismissed for excessive sickness absence. I have a friend who worked for a public sector organisation who was dismissed because time off for ME. She’s never been able to work again.

I raised this point on an AIBU post and the replies were that people incapable of working would have to claim sickness benefits. Sadly, many people with long Covid will never be able to work again.

@TaxTheRatFarms

the long term effects of Covid will be forgotten

Forgotten by who? Employers? Probably. The medical community? Hopefully not, although the track record with CFS/ME doesn’t fill me with confidence. People suffering from it? Very unlikely.

Not being antagonistic, I just can’t work out from your post if you’re saying that people with long covid will “stop making a big deal out of nothing” (not your quote but clearly some people’s opinion) when they realise they might lose their jobs, or that employers will refuse to accept that long covid is “real”.

People suffering with long Covid will be forgotten just like people with ME. Employers are not sympathetic to people with long term conditions. I believe the situation in the USA will be even worse as employment laws are shocking there.

I have hyperemesis in pregnancy and without U.K. employment laws to protect pregnancy sickness, I’m sure I would have been sacked after months off work. And I work for a decent, public sector employer.

Vaccine is helping a lot of long covid sufferers, such as my brother, and reported in new scientist. Probably only those in one of the four sub groups listed above I would guess.

Agree 5 weeks for a nasty virus isn't really unexpected.

My issue is that if 13-15% of children are suffering post viral syndrome then the information used as PR re schools being safe doesn't equate to this.

Either children are mostly asymptomatic or mild or 15% of school children could suffer symptoms for at least half a term of education.

I'd want to know what percentage of pupils usually suffer post viral syndrome to other childhood illnesses to make a comparison.

The actual figures themselves are neither concerning or unconcerning without actual context and comparison.

Dontfeedthebears in that case I completely agree with you, it’s absolutely a worry. There’s so little good understanding already about long term conditions, and not much protection for people who suffer from them. Sorry to hear about your hyperemesis

Some people are recoveeing eventually.
I think uk will be badly hit comparitively because of no testing last year AND no treatment unless you were blue etc. Vs Germany with corona taxis. And even jan all those poor people stuck in ambulances.
I feel they will find other countries also try with more treatments. Uk with anything you get the minumum.

I think personally the loss of smell is a concern as that happens in parkinsons.
We are insane really not putting masks on primary kids and imo will be questioned by that generation later if they do have long term effects.

I feel very sorry too for NHS staff who caught Covid at work and now cannot work due to it. Hopefully the NHS at least will continue to support them?

As employees, we really do have very few rights in regards to sickness. I’ve not seen that long Covid clinics have been set up yet, surely they are badly needed. Perhaps longer term there could be a new law put in place where employees with long Covid cannot be dismissed?

My dc got a heart murmur from ear infections after hand foot and mouth (can also cause t1 diabetes). But the key factor was uk gp refusing the AB to treat the infection until months of fevers and multiple double burst drums and rigors and an ambulance trip because of 40degree fevers. So i wpuld say yes that was viruses but our healthcare causes it and possible hearing issues. And even pre covid no out of hours service to see anyone for AB if the pain was severe judt left for the drums to burst again.
Same with scarlet fever, if you dont get treatment will cause heart issues.
We know mumps can cause male infertility. And covid can infect the area too. It is silly to wait to see the effects of a virus we know is very nasty because by the time we see the male inferility it will likely be 10y from now.
If we are left with a huge increase in say t1 or parkinsons or ms then that is going to be very gard to watch. (And obviously expensive).

Shocked at those who can't express concern for the children and adults affected - and whose default setting appears to be conspiracy mode 🤨

I posted the link because I naively assumed few long term SERIOUS effects in children and found the figure shocking. I know of three people who caught covid in the first wave and still are affected.

I think personally the loss of smell is a concern as that happens in parkinsons.

It's a very common side effect of viruses. My mum lost her sense of smell after a virus more than 10 years ago and it's never returned. She does not have parkinsons.

Still have symptoms 5 weeks later.
Well surely it depends what the symptoms are. Occasioanl headache, a bit of a residual cough, not feeling 100%. Pretty normal for a virus.

How many of them are suffering effects which are "life changing"? That's what we actually need to know.

No one is saying that % of DC diagnosed with covid have ‘post viral syndrome’, itsgettingwierd.

The trouble with these kinds of articles is that they invariably start out by showing a family with some poor child who is severely ill and cannot do normal activities like walking unassisted, and then they follow up with ".. and XX% of children have this syndrome," skirting over the fact that the majority of kids being included in this group are still just suffering things like headache or fatigue a couple of months out, and very few (thankfully) are like the unfortunate child being portrayed.

Of course long covid is a concern, but can we be careful not to dissolve into a kind of moral panic here?

The BMJ has already pointed out the issues with the paper in question. The study does not even appear to have a control group---meaning it's not factoring in the fact that at any given moment in time, a certain percentage of any group of people (who have never been near this virus) will have issues with headache and fatigue and things like that. Unless you compare with control groups it's impossible even start working out how many of the headaches or whatever could be caused by other things.
www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n157/rr

User I can’t see that anyone is dissolving into a moral panic on this thread.

Yes, there are issues with the study but that doesn’t detract from the fact that “long covid”/post covid syndrome is real, just as much as is there post viral syndromes are, that it can affect children although thankfully only a small minority, and awareness does need to be raised so parents aren’t continuously fobbed of by their gp and unable to get support.

You can see even on this thread how desperate some people are to label it a conspiracy. It’s so ignorant.

*just as much as other post viral syndromes are.

@Chatterbox1987

Long cocid is just post viral syndrome... people really need to realise how common this is with any virus... long covid was used as a tactic by the government to scare the public when compliance was becoming an issue. .

There is no 'just' about post viral syndromes. It IS reasonably common and when you have so many infections that adds up to a lot of people who are suffering.

As for your scare tactic claims - well, all I see is you implying you know better than than both the government and the public. You must be very special indeed.

One can can disagree with or challenge media reporting / public statements by interest groups on stats etc, have sympathy for those experiencing health problems, and want schools to open.

This thread is absolutely full of (long) covid denial.

As a nation we have really let our children down with respect to schools and covid transmission.

You’d think, Dozer but some posters haven’t managed that very well on this thread!

Clara I agree. It always seems to have been blanket denial when it comes to kids and schools, from the government at least.

The thread is a very natural reaction to the sensational headline that does not necessarily reflect real results of the ONS study:

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/adhocs/12788updatedestimatesoftheprevalenceoflongcovidsymptoms

The fact that 4% of children from 2 to 11 years and 5.7% of children from 12 to 16 years continue coughing for more than 5 weeks from getting Covid does not mean they are "suffering". My DD can cough for weeks after a normal cold (even though she is one of the healthiest children I know).

Here is an alternative report. Of course, it does not get the same amount of attention and air time as the other study because the numbers quoted in it are nowhere as catchy:

www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01292-y

Based on this data:

• 13.3% of infected individuals had symptoms lasting ≥28 days,
• 4.5% for ≥8 weeks
• 2.3% for ≥12 weeks

I find it entirely plausible that 2-4% of infections result in serious "long Covid" complications that will require medical attention. I tend to ignore numbers quoted by "zero Covid" proponents and Independent Sage.