9 out of 20 students in my class are apparently exempt from mask wearing

[Workyticket]

Taught them in a small room with a slit of a window for 1.5 hours

6 of those 9 had chosen not to take a lateral flow test because their Mum said they didn't have to

Schools and colleges are safe though. Apparently

Sorry but -what do you suggest a child with epilepsy who goes into panic and has a seizure if he cannot breathe properly (with mask on all day) does?
Do you propose he should be given a detention/ sent home or punished in some way for being ‘choosing’ to not wear a mask.
Absolutely not. If he is medically exempt then he is exempt and should be able to access his education.

My concern is that the more parents who think reading something on Facebook and then claiming their child can't wear one whilst knowing masks can't be insisted, the more life becomes very difficult for those who are exempt.

[quote andyoldlabour]"I don't take any source, including SAGE, at face value."

No, you only take notice of anything which backs up your rather flawed view on this.
Here are some decent links.

www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/everyone-should-wear-masks-in-covid-19-crisis-say-cambridge-researchers

www.bbc.com/future/article/20200504-coronavirus-what-is-the-best-kind-of-face-mask

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/01/children-as-likely-to-spread-coronavirus-as-adults-says-scientist

time.com/5799964/coronavirus-face-mask-asia-us/[/quote]
Sorry but those aren't academic papers - they are news reports from the BBC and guardian and time magazine, plus a university of Cambridge news letter with, to be fair, links to follow.

Which again would need following and reading through in detail before I could form an opinion.

So you can discount third hand health reporting, you need to go back to source.

It's called cognitive dissonance and I am of the opinion that I could accuse others of that!

You cannot call the Danmask survey reliable. This is one of the standard bearing factors of academic, sociological and medical research that data and outcomes should be reliable. You can call it interesting. You can call some of its findings valid. But it is not representative: - the sample size was small and it is not reliable.

@noblegiraffe

It is true that they didn't set out to study whether mask wearers protected others

A pretty big omission, don't you think?

Researchers need to provide strong evidence an intervention works. It's how medicine works, the standard of proof needs to be high

This isn't medicine. Do you think that every other country has got it wrong on mask wearing?

Do you literally think that every other country is doing the same thing wrt masks?

@noblegiraffe

The government are a bunch of fuckwits who didn't want anyone to wear masks in schools anyway (hence the 'review' at Easter) but felt that they had to be seen to be doing something because of the massive infection rates in schools before Christmas that led to them being closed (belatedly) in January.

They're only doing this so they can put on their shiny DfE propaganda videos the 'measures' that are being taken to ensure that schools are safe so send your kids back. They don't actually give a shit if they are safe or not.

And of course they're not safe. They go against everything the general public are told to do to protect themselves against covid. If schools were safe, everyone would be able to crowd into small rooms with 30 other people. What the govt actually means is 'we've decided that it's ok for teachers to have to take that risk and we're not going to put funding into lessening it'. The LFTs are just a last desperate attempt to make the billions spent on Operation Moonshot not a total waste.

Brilliantly put noblegiraffe as a 57 year old, unvaccinated, support staff member dealing with 30 ten and eleven year olds and two other members of staff in a poorly ventilated classroom day after day, I feel very vulnerable and anxious. The unions and government should have said, from KS2 upwards, unless there are medical exemptions/special needs, no mask, no school. I can't help but feel the secondary school parents who are currently supporting their children's decision not to wear a mask would have been insisting on them if it had meant having to continue with home schooling a day longer. I'm consistently appalled by the vitriol directed at school staff from some quarters on Mumsnet. The attitude of 'suck it up, you probably won't die' is disgusting.

I can guarantee that if you went to one of those places, unless medically exempt, you, or your secondary aged child would don masks. No one seems to be arguing that it is some abuse of human rights to be asked to wear masks in a care home

A care home will have sick elderly people, literally the cohort with the worst outcomes! In many places, the majority of deaths would be in care homes!

@Piggywaspushed

You cannot call the Danmask survey reliable. This is one of the standard bearing factors of academic, sociological and medical research that data and outcomes should be reliable. You can call it interesting. You can call some of its findings valid. But it is not representative: - the sample size was small and it is not reliable.

Absolutely agree.

It is just one study to consider and admits its faults.

It is quite common for those in favour of masks to rely on favourable studies that are not academically rigorous too.

But what other RCT's exist that are better conducted or have a large sample size? Hopefully there will be more in the future.

@Piggywaspushed

You cannot call the Danmask survey reliable. This is one of the standard bearing factors of academic, sociological and medical research that data and outcomes should be reliable. You can call it interesting. You can call some of its findings valid. But it is not representative: - the sample size was small and it is not reliable.

What was unreliable about it? It had a control group and a large group of people, 6000 participants in total I believe. I don’t think there’s any better study out there on face masks

I'm consistently appalled by the vitriol directed at school staff from some quarters on Mumsnet. The attitude of 'suck it up, you probably won't die' is disgusting
Same here. Unfortunately some people have an empathy bypass or an agenda that involves arguing schools are safe, therefore if anyone shares their own experiences they are whipping up panic, terrified, hysterical or whatever other hyperbole they wish to use.

I don't understand why a small group of people have such a fierce objection to others wanting a strategic plan for opening schools that includes reasonable health and safety measures.

I don't understand why anyone would want to object to people advocating for appropriate measures in schools so that children's education isn't further disrupted. I also don't understand why anyone who (apparently) cares about children's education would want to spend their time attacking teachers and schools instead of lobbying the government for a proper strategy regarding the safe operation of schools.

But NOBODY should have an opt out on mask wearing.

Of course they should. The problem (as ever) for people with disabilities is that able bodied people will decide they want that “advantage” that disabled people have because it is convenient to do so. The small number of people who actually need that reasonable adjustment are being abused or told to stay at home because able bodied people are unnecessarily being wankers.

@Chocolatedeficitdisorder

I am an HLTA and run a support base. I pointed out to my Manager last term that 5/6 15yr olds in the room refused to wear masks. Not exemptions, just refusals.

I was told that beyond giving them a single reminder I could do nothing more about it.

TAs and HLTAs are very vulnerable I feel. Teachers in my school are told to work behind a chalk box around their desk keeping them a good 2m from pupils but the support staff are expected to still sit amongst pupils, who may or may not be wearing masks/getting tested.

It's quite a disgrace really, especially considering many TAs are in their 50s or older.

I'd like to point out something about this magical 2 metres; my DP, 3 other staff and a group of children caught this after being in the same room as a child who tested positive. DP was never 2 metres close as only 12 keyworker students were in the room. They all still got it. I caught it from him. DD got Covid - I lay on her bed and hugged her - sat in a car with her, sat across a table at meal times - did not keep my distance in any way - no one in our household did and no one caught Covid from her - we all tested negative.

Brilliantly put noblegiraffe as a 57 year old, unvaccinated, support staff member dealing with 30 ten and eleven year olds and two other members of staff in a poorly ventilated classroom day after day, I feel very vulnerable and anxious.

You should be able to book vaccination now if you are in your late 50s.

I went back and checked wording on the DANMASK article - its called academic rigour. It's the biggest RCT yet done on mask wearing so pretty important at present I would say.

Oh but you forgot to point out that the Danish study was not a study of whether masks reduce transmission, which is, you know, seen as the main point of wearing masks.

It could have been a gold standard double blinded randomly controlled trial and it would still be irrelevant to the question ‘do masks reduce transmission’ because it wasn’t a study into that.

You should be able to book vaccination now if you are in your late 50s.

Still not much use if you’re in the classroom today is it? Or the rest of term.

@noblegiraffe

You should be able to book vaccination now if you are in your late 50s.

Still not much use if you’re in the classroom today is it? Or the rest of term.

If you were medically vulnerable you would have already been vaccinated. A 57 year old in good health isnt at any more risk in a classroom than a 57 year old in a supermarket or hairdressers, statistically proven and hence why the vulnerable have been vaccinated first. Under 70s are at a much reduced risk rate.

A 57 year old in good health isnt at any more risk in a classroom than a 57 year old in a supermarket or hairdressers, statistically proven

Hairdressers are closed so presumably they are currently at much less risk than the 57 year old in the classroom.

Not sure where you have got your info about supermarkets from.

@noblegiraffe

You should be able to book vaccination now if you are in your late 50s.

Still not much use if you’re in the classroom today is it? Or the rest of term.

It is of use. You could get vaccinated in the next week and then would have some immunity a week or so later.

But statistically, you will be fine.

Statistically DD shouldn’t have been born with her disability. If there was something I could have done to avoid it, I would have done.

“statistically you’ll be fine” is the most useless piece of advice in any situation.

@palacegirl77 thank you for your kind words. I do hope your daughter finds a way that works for her.

@noblegiraffe

I went back and checked wording on the DANMASK article - its called academic rigour. It's the biggest RCT yet done on mask wearing so pretty important at present I would say.

Oh but you forgot to point out that the Danish study was not a study of whether masks reduce transmission, which is, you know, seen as the main point of wearing masks.

It could have been a gold standard double blinded randomly controlled trial and it would still be irrelevant to the question ‘do masks reduce transmission’ because it wasn’t a study into that.

I think you are fixated on this. Bring some fresh argument, I've explained myself on this point several times.

Still doesn't mean it's not an important study. It puts to bed any idea that mask wearing protects mask wearers.

There still are no academic studies that proove masks used in the community (not hospitals) do reduce transmission, that is the point.

People are arguing for this without proof.

They are linking me to BBC articles, Guardian articles, SAGE minutes that do have references to follow but are not studies in themselves, opinion pieces.

Link me to an RCT with a control group, set in the community, using cloth masks, reasonable sample size, clearly explained methodology, etc etc from a respected academic institution that has been subject to peer review/replication and I will change my mind!!

Point is you can't.

@Workyticket

Taught them in a small room with a slit of a window for 1.5 hours

6 of those 9 had chosen not to take a lateral flow test because their Mum said they didn't have to

Schools and colleges are safe though. Apparently

It's so wrong. They should vaccinate teachers/TAs/police/prison officers - anyone in close, prolonged physical contact with large numbers of others.

Still doesn't mean it's not an important study. It puts to bed any idea that mask wearing protects mask wearers.

No it doesn’t. I thought you said you could read academic studies?

Blimey.

So sorry op. Sadly some people are selfish. Sirry about your colleague too.

It's worth remembering where we were just before Christmas:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4114000-The-infection-rate-for-pupils-last-week-was-2-509-out-of-100-000

It's true that circumstances have changed for the better, but the fewer mitigation measures deployed in schools the faster things could get out of hand again. Many small measures - face coverings, social distancing, hand hygiene and so on will help keep infections down. Unfortunately SD isn't possible in the classroom, so face covering becomes more important.