Do you feel any different now you're three weeks past your vaccine ?

[ijustdontknowwhy]

Do you somehow feel safer ? I feel like I can maybe stop wearing my visor. I looked pretty stupid anyway. But other than that, I will continue doing the same things.

I had the impression that one AZ vaccine was more effective and for Pfizer the real protection comes after the second, which is a bit of a downer since I had to wait for May for that...

The latest studies show Pfizer is 85% effective 3 weeks after the first dose. The 2nd ups the protection slightly but the vast majority of protection comes from the 1st dose.

I have had Covid and one dose of a jab. Starting to feel more relaxed and optimistic now but still follow all the rules.

Also CEV. I have already been to the optician and dentist before being vaccinated, and have also taken my child to hospital appointments several times. We also went on a short break in August, self-catering, to visit family. Otherwise, we go on walks locally in our village as before.

The one thing that has changed is that there are some gardens local to us that open with a numbered ticket system and I have been taking the children there the last few weeks and we can get a takeaway tea and cake, it feels like a big treat to them.

@neverreachingtheend Experts I’ve seen have said that AZ and Pfizer more likely to give similar results, apparently the data surrounding AZ being more effective at 1 dose is a bit uncertain.

I'm still being careful until numbers are well down to protect myself and others. As regards how I feel, I find if someone now gets a bit too close (I'm still keeping distance/following restrictions) I'm a bit more relaxed over it.

I’m still following all rules despite having had my first jab last week, and will continue to do so. It felt awful when I was unvaccinated and anxious, and all the people ahead of me in the queue were relaxing. So I want to do everything I can to protect those who are still anxiously waiting in the queue behind me.

Definitely feel safer (though won't do anything different)

The most important statistic for me is that 3 weeks after first dose you're not going to die

Cant think of anything better than a guarantee of 'not dying'

@Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady

I had the impression that one AZ vaccine was more effective and for Pfizer the real protection comes after the second, which is a bit of a downer since I had to wait for May for that...

The latest studies show Pfizer is 85% effective 3 weeks after the first dose. The 2nd ups the protection slightly but the vast majority of protection comes from the 1st dose.

You cannot simply say "effective" - you need to say effective at xxx

The vaccines have very different efficacies at reducing

• chance of testing positive
• chance of showing symptoms
• chance of being hospitalised
• chance of ending up in ICU
• chance of dying

The %'s will also be age dependent.

Current data on Pfizer
www.gov.uk/government/news/first-real-world-uk-data-shows-pfizer-biontech-vaccine-provides-high-levels-of-protection-from-the-first-dose

For >80's one dose is 57% effective at preventing symptomatic disease, second 85%+
Risk of being hospitalised is 40% lower
Risk of dying is 56%+ lower at 14 days after first dose

The benefit of vaccines rises with falling age which is why you get higher %'s quoted across the general population.

This is why the narrative being peddled by some morons about how now we've vaccinated the vulnerable, we can open up, is horseshit. 56% better protected is better than nothing, but it ain't great.

@notrub yeah you're absolutely right about the levels of ' effective ' but you missed this out :

'Early data suggests vaccinated people who go on to become infected are far less likely to die or be hospitalised. Overall, hospitalisation and death from COVID-19 will be reduced by over 75% in those who have received a dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine'

I think that's great news !

Thanks to those who have given extra statistics about the Pfizer single dose efficacy. Didn't mean to undermine the amazing benefit of even a 50% reduction in the risk of hospitalisation or death. Just that as CV and carer to a CV/CEV I still worry. Plus there was a study in Italy saying that obese people only produced half as many antibodies as normal BMI people, and I am obese. Plus I took a load of paracetamol and ibuprofen before the vaccine as I was worried they would check my temperature while I was having a menopausal moment and they might send me home. Then I read that both these medicines can reduce the vaccine efficacy. So I might have self-sabotaged that a little bit too

@neverreachingtheend where did you read about the paracetamol thing?

[quote ijustdontknowwhy]@neverreachingtheend where did you read about the paracetamol thing? [/quote]
Quite a lot of clinical studies if you search online.

(in addition to the not-entirely scientific thread running on MN recently )

Yep, I feel able to go into a local shop for milk now!

I'm following all the rules but I am now going into supermarkets if I need something.

I had the AZ and was advised to take paracetamol. It is on the patient leaflet,

this is from AZ themselves:

Taking paracetamol did not affect the immunogenicity of the COVID-19 vaccine.

Plus there was a study in Italy saying that obese people only produced half as many antibodies as normal BMI people, and I am obese.

There was another study done which showed very little difference in anti body levels between people of a normal BMI and morbidly obese people. But that was less publicized. Doesn't make as exciting a headline!!

[quote ijustdontknowwhy]@notrub yeah you're absolutely right about the levels of ' effective ' but you missed this out :

'Early data suggests vaccinated people who go on to become infected are far less likely to die or be hospitalised. Overall, hospitalisation and death from COVID-19 will be reduced by over 75% in those who have received a dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine'

I think that's great news ![/quote]
I think you missed out the word "overall"!

As I said, the benefit of vaccines rises as age falls. I quoted the data for the most vulnerable group - I know some have already written this group off... Basically "the vulnerable" are slightly better than half as vulnerable as they were, but they can easily offset that benefit with increased social contact. The key thing for them is STILL the number of local infections because if they're never exposed, they can never be ill vaccine or no vaccine.

Vaccines ARE great news, but until we reach a level of herd immunity AND improve our national defenses to stop new strains getting in, we still have everything to lose. And if community infection levels in the UK stay high, the chance of a vaccine resistant strain developing here is high too.

Same, I'm also very careful. Socially distant, wearing masks, using hand sanitizer etc. Haven't socialised indoors since early October (when I met with friends in a restaurant).
I am the only one in my family who has been vaccinated so far(first jab), and there is still a chance I could pass the virus on.

@ilovenuts

I had the AZ and was advised to take paracetamol. It is on the patient leaflet,

this is from AZ themselves:

Taking paracetamol did not affect the immunogenicity of the COVID-19 vaccine.

That's to combat side effects - which arrive AFTER you've been vaccinated.

Nobody should take paracetamol ahead of the vaccination- it does interfere.

If you did this for first dose, make sure you don't do it for second! Then unlikely to have a major effect on your protection!

@notrub sorry I'm not meaning to be difficult but how does the word 'overall' not make the statement true ?

Did you see Jonathan Van Tam also say that both vaccines give about 80 percent protection from hospitalisation and deaths ? It literally came out of his mouth on live TV. Do you acknowledge that ?

not convinced

what about people on regular painkillers? most of the vaccinated people are in the older age groups, probably on paracetamol for arthritis. etc, we are not seeing vaccine failure in this large group are we?

@ilovenuts

not convinced

what about people on regular painkillers? most of the vaccinated people are in the older age groups, probably on paracetamol for arthritis. etc, we are not seeing vaccine failure in this large group are we?

Good point.

It was a bit stupid to take 2 paracetamol and 2 ibuprofen before the vaccine, but I was so desperate to get it. In the end, they didn't take temperature, because clearly most of there were likely a lot of menopausal women there and the vaccine hub was boiling hot (with no ventilation).

Will try not to do it for the second dose, if my hormonal brain can think straight at the time.

As regards the obesity, well not much I can do about that before May based on current levels of emotional eating and on-going shielding situation.

Immunity rises from around two weeks to plateau at around three weeks, so yes 56% at two weeks, but more like 75/80% at three weeks.

Personally I have been very careful - no restaurants last year, only went in well ventilated shops, haven't been in anyone else's house since last March. Three weeks after vaccination I will be arranging a dentist, optician and hair appointment - woop! And I'll probably feel safe enough to pop to the supermarket for something rather than just wait for my next online order.

Everything else - I'll wait and see what happens to cases. If they fall as low as they were last summer I'll probably go more or less back to normal, just avoiding being inside with large groups of people.

this is from the Oxford trial, some volunteers were asked to take paracetamol BEFORE and AFTER the vaccine and there was no difference in the effectiveness of the vaccine.

*UK trial
The randomised, controlled, single-blind trial of the Oxford vaccine ran between 23 April and 21 May 2020 and involveed 1,077 healthy adults aged 18–55 years with no history of COVID-19.

Participants received either the experimental COVID-19 vaccine or a licensed meningococcal conjugate vaccine (MenACWY); 113 participants were also asked to take paracetamol before and for 24 hours after their vaccination to lessen adverse reactions.

Ten participants assigned to a non-randomised, unblinded prime-boost group received a two-dose schedule of the COVID-19 vaccine, with the booster vaccine administered 28 days after the first dose.

The COVID-19 vaccine was found to have an acceptable safety profile and there were no serious adverse events.

Local and systemic reactions were more common in the COVID-19 group, although many were reduced by use of prophylactic paracetamol, including pain, feeling feverish, chills, muscle ache, headache, and malaise.

Fatigue and headache were the most commonly reported reactions: fatigue was reported by 70% of participants given the COVID-19 vaccine without paracetamol (71% of those with paracetamol), versus 48% of those given the MenACWY vaccine without paracetamol; headache was reported by 68% of the COVID-19 group without paracetamol (61% with paracetamol), versus 41% of participants in the MenACWY group without paracetamol.

Immune response
T-cell response to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein peaked at day 14 and declined slightly by day 56; the antibody response peaked by day 28 and remained high at day 56. Antibody levels were boosted in people who received a second dose.

Neutralising antibody responses against SARS-CoV-2 were detected in more than 90% of participants (32/35) at 28 days after a single dose, and in 100% of the participants who received a booster dose.

Taking paracetamol did not affect the immunogenicity of the COVID-19 vaccine.

The authors note that a small number of participants had detectable neutralising antibodies and T-cell responses against SARS-CoV-2 spike protein before vaccination, likely to be due to past asymptomatic infection as individuals with recent COVID-19-like symptoms or a history of positive PCR test for SARS-CoV-2 were excluded from the study.

The trial participants will continue to be monitored for at least a year to further characterise the vaccine’s safety and immunogenicity.*

I think that I will put my faith in the scientists

[quote ijustdontknowwhy]@notrub sorry I'm not meaning to be difficult but how does the word 'overall' not make the statement true ?

Did you see Jonathan Van Tam also say that both vaccines give about 80 percent protection from hospitalisation and deaths ? It literally came out of his mouth on live TV. Do you acknowledge that ? [/quote]
You're being rather thick, not difficult.

You challenged my statement by providing a completely different one.
It seems you are unable to grasp the difference between an average across the whole population, and one across a small age range.

An average man runs 100m in 27 seconds - you think this stands true for your average care home resident?