What to do about MIL?

[studychick81]

My MiL is not having the vaccination, she thinks the MMR gave her epilepsy when she was a child, now 65+. She also believes in conspiracy theories and sends us things like the vaccination can effect fertility (why she's bothered I don't know, she's in her 60s) and that it's got all sorts of harmful things in it. It's strange as her husband is CV and her two parents are elderly and they aren't coping without her help, they are still at home. She wants to get her mother into a nursing home I am assuming she wouldn't be able to visit without it.

I am not sure what to do about is seeing her though. We have two dcs 8 and 6. We are all very healthy but I would prefer not to get COVID, I know lots of people getting it badly even though they are fit and healthy, one needing oxygen and a few think they have long COVID, all similar ages to us 40s. But I think the dcs are probably more likely to get it at school or DH when he goes back to the office.

The biggest thing is my DDad is ECV and has a low white blood count. He is diabetic too. He says if he caught it he would not survive. He and my DM have had their first injections. But I know the injections don't stop you getting it.

I think DH would kick off if I said that I didn't want to see his DM, how long would that be for too? We would have a massive row and he would probably take the dcs to see her anyway.

What would you do?

Again, a specious argument. "It's alright, people only have Covid for a few days at a time, what are the chances!" doesn't seem to have stopped its transmission.

@HelloThereMeHearties

She can't give you COVID just because she hasn't been vaccinated. She would have to have COVID to pass it on, which she would only have for a short amount of time

Well going by that argument @dividedwefall then nobody could pass on Covid ever

I mean, did you miss the bit about this being a pandemic because of asymptomatic transmission?!

I don't understand that statement. She could give her covid whether she has had it or not.

Although I really want to avoid it in our house we would probably be ok. It's more worry about my df actually.

In terms of risk- are unvaccinated people more likely to get it though? I guess my dcs are more likely to get it through school. The thing is he has been keeping his distance from all of us, when the kids are at school he doesn't see them at all- so that's from next week. I am hoping once dh and I have the vaccination we can see him indoors and in the same room- when allowed. But if we ve been in contact with MIL is the risk of transmission higher.

All those who say it's her body her choice are over simplifying the issue. It's not that straight forward because that choice impacts the health of many people around them.

They may have the right to make that choice

But it means that those around them have to make choices to prevent this choice from ruining the lives of others.

[quote notrub]@studychick81 @ Motnight

People like you are almost as bad as anti-vaxxers - you ENABLE them.

What IS a completely bonkers attitude to have, is one where you think it's totally acceptable for someone to disregard medical advice, spread bogus advice and generally act in a way that endangers the lives of others.

It's the 21st century equivalent of "Oh yeah, my friend always drives back drunk from the pub, so what?"[/quote]
She's 60+ it's her choice, I don't agree but I won't try and talk her out of it. Her DH is CV as are her parents so it's a strange choice though.

@dividedwefall

"Well the jury is still out on asymptomatic transmission. "

Bullshit

Asymptomatic transmission was regarded as significant in January 2020!! Several scientific papers covered it.

It's now believed to be the main driving force behind covid transmission - nearly every superspreader event originated from someone without any symptoms.

How should I bring it up with my DH though? He I'll argue I think, probably take dcs anyway and won't want to tell her.

I'm the same age - 65 - and there was no MMR nor measles/mumps/rubella jabs back then. We had diptheria, tetanus, polio, whooping cough vaccines. Rubella came later when I was a teen. I had measles as a child, it was normal back then for a whole class to go down with it.

OP there's not a lot you can do if she doesn't want to have the vaccine. All you can do is change your family's way of dealing with her. I think you need to sit down with your DH and have a frank, calm conversation about the risks.

[quote notrub]@studychick81 @ Motnight

People like you are almost as bad as anti-vaxxers - you ENABLE them.

What IS a completely bonkers attitude to have, is one where you think it's totally acceptable for someone to disregard medical advice, spread bogus advice and generally act in a way that endangers the lives of others.

It's the 21st century equivalent of "Oh yeah, my friend always drives back drunk from the pub, so what?"[/quote]
Notrub - is this aimed at me? If so you have no idea about what I feel about anti-vaxxers. You can't possibly say that I enable them! My comment, which I stick by, is that there's no comparison between a paedophile and someone who refuses the vaccine.

Surely the person who she's hurting most here is herself? If everyone else has had the vaccine they can of course transmit the virus between themselves but are very unlikely to need any hospital treatment or at worst die.
To play devils advocate, none of us will know for certain who's been vaccinated and who hasn't afterall you don't get a shiny badge to wear afterwards (well I didnt after mine anyway). I think a few people may tell others they've been vaccinated to avoid drama like this.

@Wellbythebloodyhell

Surely the person who she's hurting most here is herself? If everyone else has had the vaccine they can of course transmit the virus between themselves but are very unlikely to need any hospital treatment or at worst die. To play devils advocate, none of us will know for certain who's been vaccinated and who hasn't afterall you don't get a shiny badge to wear afterwards (well I didnt after mine anyway). I think a few people may tell others they've been vaccinated to avoid drama like this.

Sorry I am causing a drama over my ECV df. He has leukaemia- which is currently dormant, low white blood count, overweight and has type 1 diabetes. I don't think it's a drama, I don't want to be responsible for putting him at risk. He's already been rushed to hospital once as he could breath, they have ruled out COVID though.

Your issue here is your DH, not your MIL.

All of my siblings, nieces and nephews are refusing the vaccine on the basis that they “won’t be guinea pigs.” The youngest is a student nurse. The eldest see my 78 year old father on a daily basis. Luckily my dad has had his first jab.

It makes me so angry but I just don’t talk to them about it anymore. I haven’t decided what I’m going to do about visitation when we are out of lockdown.

OP whilst I think everyone who can should have the jab should (ive had it) you are blaming any future illness or your df firmly and solely at your mil door. Your df is more likely to get infected by your dc and any other younger unvaccinated people he may come into contact with than a 3rd party transmission from your mil.

Your mil feels she has suffered long term side effects from a previous vaccine so its understandable she has her reservations even if they are probably unrelated she believes they are.
Aside from the vaccine issue, what is she like as a Mum, MIL and Grandmother? Has your CV been vaccinated?

Your mil feels she has suffered long term side effects from a previous vaccine

A vaccine that she never had!

@HelloThereMeHearties

Your mil feels she has suffered long term side effects from a previous vaccine

A vaccine that she never had!

OP ruled out the MMR vaccine not the possibility of it being a vaccination for something else

She didn't have the MMR as a child. Or single vaccines. The polio vaccine was only available late 50s in the uk.

Kind of makes the entire thing a bit implausible, no?

One of the biggest side effects of mmr is non-febrile seizures. Absence seizures used to be considered a normal side effect after the single mmr vaccines (I think it still is) - mum said I got both types of seizures and they rushed me to the GP thinking it was epilepsy but it wasn’t. But I guess kids with epilepsy would probably be more likely to have those side effects.

All very interesting @GrumpyHoonMain but completely irrelevant as this 65 year old woman did not have a vaccine as a child that wasn't invented until several decades later.

@Wellbythebloodyhell

OP whilst I think everyone who can should have the jab should (ive had it) you are blaming any future illness or your df firmly and solely at your mil door. Your df is more likely to get infected by your dc and any other younger unvaccinated people he may come into contact with than a 3rd party transmission from your mil.

Your mil feels she has suffered long term side effects from a previous vaccine so its understandable she has her reservations even if they are probably unrelated she believes they are.
Aside from the vaccine issue, what is she like as a Mum, MIL and Grandmother? Has your CV been vaccinated?

But if she passed it to one of us and then we passed it to my df if we had no symptoms. It is a risk. Third person transmission happens, it's not all first hand.

I need to find out which vaccination it was, she told my DH, who told me so I can't remember. Need to check.

She's a lovely gran to my dcs , they are her only grandchildren. DH and I get on with her fine, she's a nice, warm person.

@DropDTuning

All very interesting *@GrumpyHoonMain* but completely irrelevant as this 65 year old woman did not have a vaccine as a child that wasn't invented until several decades later.

It was deemed ready in the early 60s and rolled out in the UK in 1968. However if Op’s mil is from Africa or India it’s possible she might have had a trial vaccine in the 50s.

This isn't really about your MIL. You know she won't have the jab.

This is about your DH. Focus on that problem.

If your main concern is your DF and he has already had his first jab, then once he has had his second this surely becomes a non-issue?

Maybe just keep your distance until then. Although as you say, your OH and children are the most likely route in for disease, so I’d personally not be concerned about MIL situation regardless

@DropDTuning

She didn't have the MMR as a child. Or single vaccines. The polio vaccine was only available late 50s in the uk.

Kind of makes the entire thing a bit implausible, no?

For information I received the measles vaccine in 1967 and the rubella vaccine in secondary school in the early 70s

Does she have epilepsy?
Maybe she just had seizures in childhood? Also my friend’s daughter has epilepsy and was vaccinated a month ago.

My understanding is that vaccinated people have milder COVID so lesser viral load so you need more close and prolonged contact to get it from them. But they still can get COVID and pass to others.
I don’t think you could avoid your MIL at all. Maybe you could compromise at seeing her outside and with you present so you could make sure that DC sanitizing hands, keep a bit of distance and so on. Can you also wait until your parents have had their second vaccine?

I understand you completely. Yes, we are in pandemic and anyone around can have asymptomatic COVID but no one wants to get it to their parents or children and then see the tragic consequences.

Measles vaccine came in 1968
MMR wasn't introduced until 1988 in the UK
I'm 47 and haven't had it. I imagine I had measles vaccine as a child and the rubella one as a teen