Non mask wearing parents being required to drop off later

[Morph2lcfc]

An article in our local paper was about a local school that’s said that non mask wearing parents and required to drop off and pick up at different times. The drop off is later I’m not sure if pick up is later or earlier. One man was complaining it was discriminatory to his wife but lots of people were in favour. The man said it was an attempt to shame people into wearing masks. Is it fair on people that are genuinely exempt? Will their children feel singled out or is it actually beneficial to them as they will be safer as they are dropping off/ picking up at a quieter time. My child has asd and we often had late drop off/ early pick ups when he was in mainstream and this was viewed as a reasonable adjustment rather than being discrimination.

If people are medically exempt from wearing masks then they are much more likely to be more vulnerable from the virus, so dropping off when less people and it’s easier to distance makes sense

Every time there's a mask thread this crap gets trotted out. Why would PTSD, autism, trigeminal neuralgia etc make you more vulnerable to covid?

And the 'reasonable adjustment' here is lawful exemption. Not that mask legislation applies outdoors anyway, where nobody is legally obliged to wear a mask, exempt or not.

How can missing 10 minutes be so irreversibly detrimental to children's education? It's ridiculous

@Nith @BogRollBOGOF
In both those cases you could request a different reasonable adjustment for those particular children such as accessing the site slightly earlier and going through to the class at normal time
Just because an adjustment applies for a group of people it doesn't mean a slightly different adjustment couldn't apply for individuals within that group.

@turquoisewaters

I think it's a reasonable adjustment

No it isn't. The reasonable adjustment for those unable to wear masks is mask exemption.

I can see why people may be unhappy about mask exempt people in enclosed spaces (although exempt people still need to access these spaces, and should be able to do so without prejudice). However there is absolutely no reason for being up in arms about mask exempt people not wearing masks in the open air where mask wearing is not mandatory and where the risk of transmission is slim to none.

@turquoisewaters

How can missing 10 minutes be so irreversibly detrimental to children's education? It's ridiculous

It equates to more than a day per term, and parents would get fined if they were randomly taking their child out for a day every term. But, more seriously, it's never going to be limited 10 minutes by the time they've got into the classroom, settled down, and worked out what is going on in the lesson. And think about the disruption to the others every single day.

I happily wear a mask on the school run.

This is ridiculous. It’s outside and it’s brief and cases are low.

I think this is a good step.

Being medically exempt does not mean you are not posing a risk to other people, and a adjustment for the person who cannot wear a mask is not a reasonable one when it puts others at risk

We all surely must know by now that the sort of face coverings people are compelled to wear are to protect the group from the individual's exhalations - which is why face shields don't count because exhalations go straight round the edge.

So if you have a group, which may well include CV people and those with CEV in their household, it's a responsible step to keep those who are not in masks separate.

Everyone gets to do their pick up, within a v short timeframe (certainly no greater than other staggering arrangements) and the reasonable adjustment to protect the CV from the exhalations from those who cannot wear masks has been achieved

[quote wonkylegs]**@Nith* @BogRollBOGOF*
In both those cases you could request a different reasonable adjustment for those particular children such as accessing the site slightly earlier and going through to the class at normal time
Just because an adjustment applies for a group of people it doesn't mean a slightly different adjustment couldn't apply for individuals within that group.
[/quote]
But it isn't an adjustment at all, is it? If it applies only to people who don't wear masks from choice, which of the protected categories in the Equality Act are the adjustments being made for?

Understandable. If I was exempt I’d understand and be thankful to school for trying to keep everyone safe. Like pp said, other kids are collected slightly earlier, it’s not a form of adult bullying.

Local school has a masked adults only policy on site. Parents come into playground on the staggered start/ finish to drop off and pick up their children.

They collect and return children of non-mask wearing parents to the school gate at handover.

One mum is massively kicking off - trying to push onto the playground every time, shouting about discrimination and human rights. She has now written a formal complaint to the governors saying her child is being humiliated by being brought to the gate by a TA rather than running free to her from the classroom door.

The school is just trying to minimise the risks to everyone.

Username created for this post only. This is my children's school.
Everyone is being asked to drop off and pickup at different times. Each year has their own pick up and drop off times. Some kids have siblings with different times so there's another time provided for groups of siblings. Means any one class will be staggered on arrival and pickup.
People exempt from wearing masks are being asked to drop of and pick up just 5 mins after the last yr group's timeslot. No reduction in service.
There is really no need for anyone to be getting angry about this. Should i be annoyed that my timeslot is different because i have more than one child?

Of course its reasonable. In fact they will argue that they are protecting those who cannot wear masks by providing them with a less busy timeslot. It's fuck all to do with anyone's real risk, or someone's perceived worthiness. It's one of those adjustments that makes already nervous people feel less anxious.

There's far too much focus on the twats that WON'T wear one and that takes away from those who CANNOT wear one!

All this "It's unlawful" is a matter of perspective! Some will appreciate it, others won't. Either way the school can't win.

Tell anyone who mutters to grow up!

@Nith if the parents aren't wearing masks due to choice then they are the ones impacting their children not the school.

My point is from equality terms those who are protected due to medical or MH need are accommodated by this policy and those with slightly different individual needs (not wants) can also be accommodated they are not excluded by this policy being in place, they just need to have a conversation with their school.

People exempt from wearing masks are being asked to drop of and pick up just 5 mins after the last yr group's timeslot. No reduction in service.

But surely 5 minutes is pointless? People will still turn up either early or late for their allocated slot, so there won't be any protection realistically. If a child and parent arrive at the normal time, is the school really going to make them wait so that they're mingling with other parents and children for even longer?

It equates to more than a day per term, and parents would get fined if they were randomly taking their child out for a day every term. But, more seriously, it's never going to be limited 10 minutes by the time they've got into the classroom, settled down, and worked out what is going on in the lesson. And think about the disruption to the others every single day.

There won't be a disruption because there won't be many children who this applies to and we have been doing staggered starts since last March and teachers have adjusted accordingly.

The ten minutes a day will be recouped at the end of each day.

I don't see the discrimination here. The children aren't missing out. They come 10 minutes late,but they also leave late. Is it discrimination when y4s drop at 9:15? Or that siblings can all go at the earliest time? And whatever other combo the staggered starts offer?

It protects those who can't wear a mask from being in a crowded area .

Also, no one can tell at the moment if this is a policy that the school have cooked up on their own, or something they decided to do after a consultation with parents, as a response to their worries and concerns.

@wonkylegs

Most people with genuine exemptions would understand the term reasonable adjustment under equality legislation - making a service accessible for all in disability terms doesn't necessarily mean providing it exactly the same way for everyone. Most people with medical exemptions want to be as safe as other people and if this is a way to do that (and relatively easily) I'm sure that they would prefer that. Mask refusers for political/personal freedom however don't like this for other reasons but I tend to think that that's because their argument is all about them and thinks very little about society as a whole.

So true!

[quote wonkylegs]@Nith if the parents aren't wearing masks due to choice then they are the ones impacting their children not the school.

My point is from equality terms those who are protected due to medical or MH need are accommodated by this policy and those with slightly different individual needs (not wants) can also be accommodated they are not excluded by this policy being in place, they just need to have a conversation with their school. [/quote]
I agree that for those who choose not to wear a mask without being exempt they have chosen to impact their children. But the point is that people are saying that it's a reasonable adjustment, and clearly for them it isn't because neither they nor the class of those who do choose to wear masks are in protected categories.

I also question how those who are protected due to medical reasons are being accommodated, if they are forced to mix with a group of non-mask wearers.

@ProfessorInkling

I happily wear a mask on the school run.

This is ridiculous. It’s outside and it’s brief and cases are low.

I can't work out what bearing that has on the discussion

I saw a post above by a poster who doesn't chat at the school gate, equally totally nothing to do with this

I think the school is probably trying to do the best for the mask exempt and maybe hasn't quite got the solution right but in principle trying to reduce a risk for a group of parents isn't a bad thing is it?

those with slightly different individual needs (not wants) can also be accommodated they are not excluded by this policy being in place

That'll be the CV/CEV I mentioned, who should not be excluded because they need as covid-safe an environment as possible. So it's masks all round for the times they will be there.

And those who need a different adjustment, because they cannot wear a mask, are present at a different time.

People exempt from wearing masks are being asked to drop of and pick up just 5 mins after the last yr group's timeslot. No reduction in service

Doesn't this mean that all those who can't wear masks are together at the same time? Surely if the school believes there's a risk from unmasked people in the open air, having them all grouped together will increase that risk?

@Nith
CV/CEV protection for students is another matter though and that's not what this is about. I think that should be looked at on a case by case basis and appropriately dealt with (I'm aware that the quality of this support varies by school) but is not necessarily linked to mask wearing by parents at drop off.
I'm immunosuppressed as well as disabled with kids in both primary and secondary so do understand the worry and issues of exposure first hand. This year hasn't been easy and school has been an added pressure.

Whether this is reasonable or not it isn't reasonable adjustment.

[quote wonkylegs]**@Nith* @BogRollBOGOF*
In both those cases you could request a different reasonable adjustment for those particular children such as accessing the site slightly earlier and going through to the class at normal time
Just because an adjustment applies for a group of people it doesn't mean a slightly different adjustment couldn't apply for individuals within that group.
[/quote]
My children require no adjustments on this matter, just the normality of entering with their cohort and not being treated differently because their parent can't wear a face covering.

People will be exempt so they need special measures for them, brilliant they are being accommodated in this way.