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Covid

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Why do people seem to want to believe vaccines aren't effective?

113 replies

Notabove25 · 02/03/2021 11:35

Or not effective enough?

All the evidence I've seen, seems to be that even one dose offers a very high level of protection against becoming seriously ill, even if it can't protect you 100% from ever returning a positive test.

Why do some people seem desperate to believe that vaccination won't help, that there's still a high possibility of getting long Covid after the jab, that mutations will render it useless etc?

To my mind, most of the most vulnerable are now vaccinated or will be very soon, which is excellent news and really should mean we can start getting back to normal. Why do so many seem to want to believe otherwise?

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 02/03/2021 13:17

@minchinfin

I agree.

I also think they should and hope they are planning the third booster dose for everyone who has had the original vaccines (once all adults done) with the sequence adjusted for the variants in september/october

Oxford (and I don't doubt, also the various companies) are of course already working on it.
RosieLemonade · 02/03/2021 13:17

@IcedPurple

5 months ago it was 'I don't think they'll ever get a vaccine. Sorry'.

Then it became 'I'm afraid the vaccines don't prevent transmission'.

Now we have 'You do realise the vaccines won't be effective against variants?'

What's next? Any guesses?

I hate how this is always phrased as feeling sorry for us "stupid" enough to be optimistic. As if we are only optimistic because we are too dense to understand the situation.
minchinfin · 02/03/2021 13:17

yes, of course they are ....

HolmeH · 02/03/2021 13:18

The U.K. roll out IS better than anywhere in the EU @LEnferCestLesAutres - no argument. Would you prefer we stopped vaccinating just in case it isn’t at all effective? Or should we keep going & hope if offers some against new strains and loads against the dominant ones? I think we should probably keep going & in Autumn, we can tweak the vaccines against newer strains and start revaccinating the vulnerable..!

rainbowunicorn · 02/03/2021 13:21

@Dragongirl10

It always amazes me how many people have rigid views completely unrelated to facts... I think our scientists have widely and clearly outlined each stage of this pandemic, and the results at each stage of the vaccination development and implementation, on the BBC news, daily. Yet some people still seem unable to comprehend the facts.

You cannot reason with stupid

I agree with this so much. To be honest though it is not surprising that people are unable to comprehend the more complicated stuff when they can't even get the name of the testing program right. The amount of people that seem call it Track and Trace as opposed to the actual serice which is TEST and Trace is astounding. Again, it is something that I only ever see on here or on the similar Facebook type threads.
InterfectoremVulpes · 02/03/2021 13:24

@LEnferCestLesAutres

"It's possible the vaccines may be less effective against the 'Brazil strain', but 'less' does not equal ineffective"

It also does not equal "effective" does it?

You clearly have an agenda - showing that the UK vaccine rollout is better than in other countries - which appears to be affecting your ability to be objective

Observe the strawman argument in the wild. Using a point no one has made as a retort to a completely different point.

Fascinating 🤓

alsodetoxing · 02/03/2021 13:26

Because then there is no point waiting for the roll out.

IcedPurple · 02/03/2021 13:29

It also does not equal "effective" does it?

Actually it does. But what the poster I was replying to said is this:

"If most of the population is vaccinated against the original and Kent strain, as with the vaccines being used now, the population will be just as vulnerable to the Brazil strain as if they had had no vaccine"

In other words, she said that vaccines will have zero effectiveness against the 'Brazil strain' which is simply nonsense. I'm still waiting for all the links to the 'scientists' who have made that claim.

You clearly have an agenda - showing that the UK vaccine rollout is better than in other countries - which appears to be affecting your ability to be objective

Well, it is an objective fact that Britain's roll-out IS better than any other European country, but that's not really the point.

Clearly you consider yourself 'objective'. What have I written which is 'objectively' incorrect, in your expert view?

IcedPurple · 02/03/2021 13:30

I hate how this is always phrased as feeling sorry for us "stupid" enough to be optimistic. As if we are only optimistic because we are too dense to understand the situation.

Classic example being the poster above who assured us she was simply being 'realistic' in putting forward a factually incorrect scenario.

ErrolTheDragon · 02/03/2021 13:33

@minchinfin

yes, of course they are ....
The ellipsis implies doubt ... perhaps you didn't mean to imply skepticism? Confusedthey've said they are working on the 'tweaks' and it's entirely obvious that they would be.
FlyingBurrito · 02/03/2021 13:37

@notthegobbyoneagain

Use the Kent variant as an example. It started with a very small number of cases but has since become the dominant strain in the UK quickly overtaking the original strain.

If most of the population is vaccinated against the original and Kent strain, as with the vaccines being used now, the population will be just as vulnerable to the Brazil strain as if they had had no vaccine and thus the Brazil strain will infect the population and become the dominant strain of Covid putting us right back to square one until an updated vaccine is produced in the autumn, but by then there will be more mutations and I fear we will be going to be playing catch-up for a long time to get on top of this pandemic.

I do not think I am being pessimistic, just realistic. I have heard similar from scientists on various news channels over the last few weeks.

Maybe you are from a university research team that has come to a different conclusion but I'm more than happy to go with the team from Oxford that develops the vaccine

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/vaccine-expert-explains-should-calm-23591384?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mirror_politics&fbclid=IwAR3crFCW9Ds9gpMGxjfFHLz7U8VXpt-v7fN23r4mmo-ltB-Ke9Ae0T1cLnM

minchinfin · 02/03/2021 13:40

*minchinfin

yes, of course they are ....

The ellipsis implies doubt ... perhaps you didn't mean to imply skepticism? confusedthey've said they are working on the 'tweaks' and it's entirely obvious that they would be.*

Have you read my other posts?

The ellipsis imply of course they fucking are!

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 02/03/2021 13:41

👍

Why do people seem to want to believe vaccines aren't effective?
feelingverylazytoday · 02/03/2021 14:01

@IcedPurple

People will deny it, but I really do think lots of folk are sorely disappointed that Britain's vaccine roll-out has been a roaring success, especially compared to its neighbours. They were ready to post their 'See? I told you this government couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. Britain is the laughing stock of the world' and 'How is it that (unnamed) other countries can manage this and we can't?' posts and are now quite frustrated that well, they just can't.
I think this describes it to a T. So, just for you miserable wankers people , proof that the UK vaccine programme is working even better than expected www.standard.co.uk/news/health/covid-vaccine-results-public-health-england-b921793.html Sorry (no, I'm not really).
LEnferCestLesAutres · 02/03/2021 14:02

IcedPurple

You have informed us that the currently available vaccines are effective against the Brazilian variant:

"It also does not equal "effective" does it? - Actually it does."

Do you have any evidence for that assertion?

The fact that scientists are currently working on (hopefully) tweaking the vaccines suggests to me that they, at least, recognise a potential problem.

LEnferCestLesAutres · 02/03/2021 14:06

@HolmeH

The U.K. roll out IS better than anywhere in the EU *@LEnferCestLesAutres* - no argument. Would you prefer we stopped vaccinating just in case it isn’t at all effective? Or should we keep going & hope if offers some against new strains and loads against the dominant ones? I think we should probably keep going & in Autumn, we can tweak the vaccines against newer strains and start revaccinating the vulnerable..!
I wholeheartedly agree, HolmeH. We should keep going. Why wouldn't we? I note that we also agree that the vulnerable will need re-vaccinating against new strains very soon. I think that actually everybody will need re-vaccinating. Not sure what your point is, really
IcedPurple · 02/03/2021 14:10

@LEnferCestLesAutres

IcedPurple

You have informed us that the currently available vaccines are effective against the Brazilian variant:

"It also does not equal "effective" does it? - Actually it does."

Do you have any evidence for that assertion?

The fact that scientists are currently working on (hopefully) tweaking the vaccines suggests to me that they, at least, recognise a potential problem.

I'm not your research assistant. If you've watched any of the news briefings, JVT and others have made it clear that while the vaccines may have reduced effectiveness against the 'new variants', they will still work.

The flu vaccine is updated every year to adjust to new strains, so why is it some major issue if the same will be true for Covid vaccines?

LEnferCestLesAutres · 02/03/2021 14:16

Grin gosh what a lot of bluster IcedPurple

IcedPurple · 02/03/2021 14:18

@LEnferCestLesAutres

Grin gosh what a lot of bluster IcedPurple
Superb rebuttal. Can't argue with that.
EnoughnowIthink · 02/03/2021 14:21

You know, this thing came out of nowhere and hit us hard. We were suddenly all living in the middle of a movie with a very real sense of 'it could be you' next. It was very frightening at the beginning because we didn't know how it would pan out and I don't think it's being dramatic saying neither did the Government. Vaccines were a long way off and people were getting very sick and a number were dying.

I am a rational person and can see that from a statistical point of view, I had little to worry about. Still, I have a child with type 1 and I am over weight to it adds to the worry. I don't understand the science of vaccine and I don't think it's unreasonable to say that it's happened quickly (even if I understand why that's the case) and nor do I think people saying there might be a problem with it somewhere down the line are wrong either. I think it unlikely, but I wouldn't be surpized either.

On top of that, we have had our leader tell us it'll all be over in 2 weeks, 12 weeks, by September, by Christmas, and now by June. So forgive me if I am somewhat sceptical about June being the end date. I hope it is. It probably won't be. I don't consider myself glass half empty or negative in any way. But I have learnt over the last 12 months that caution is required and that as global pandemics don't come with a handy check list of dos and don'ts, it is likely to a greater or lesser degree, this will hang on for some time yet. Realist.

peak2021 · 02/03/2021 14:39

@EnoughnowIthink your point about false dawns and false promises is well made. Though I still want my vaccine when it is my turn.

ConnieDobbs · 02/03/2021 14:41

I think there are a few things going on. The media reports still seem quite cautious about vaccine effectiveness and the reopening this summer. I suspect they have been told to take this approach to prevent the general public getting demob happy and all rushing out to have massive parties, which probably would send rates up again.

Also there are still plenty of people who feel quite vulnerable to the virus but haven't been vaccinated yet. The thought of everything reopening and rates rising while they personally are still unvaccinated will be a bit alarming.

im5050 · 02/03/2021 14:48

@HolmeH

Yes my dad and if you check a previous post of mine I wrote a few weeks ago he was in hospital ago and that he may need to go into a care home. I didn’t even mention the Covid jab in that post as I wasn’t aware that he had the jab

My neighbours aunt is also in hospital a week after having the jab with pneumonia although she is getting better now thankfully. She is 71

My cousins girlfriend . I think she is 50 but as I said the arm she was jabbed in swelled up and she had no feelings in her hand for several days .
All of them are diabetic the one where you have to inject insulin and have been for years

My dad is 74 and admittedly not in the best of health but he was living alone cooking & washing & dressing himself with no assistance he was mobile with a walking frame.
He had the jab and went down hill within a week of having it . He had several falls in a week which has never happened before .
His hand that had the jab also has limited movement

All three of them have had problems in getting sugar levels back to something normal .

And yes I know plenty of people who have had the and have been fine including my husband and my sister and brother
But I also know 3 people who are all diabetic and seem to have had severe reactions

im5050 · 02/03/2021 14:56

@HolmeH
Why would it be reported and to who
2 are elderly with other health conditions
My dad and my neighbours aunt aren’t in the same hospital and the other person didn’t end up in hospital
Because the two elderly people have other health problems it would be easy to assume that is the reason they are in hospital and it may well nothing to do with the jab apart from the fact that they were both perfectly ok before they had the jab

BertieBotts · 02/03/2021 15:11

Honestly?

Injections are scary and painful, it's horrible to have to hold your baby/toddler down while they get jabbed uncomprehendingly, and when you feel emotional about something (fear being one of the more primal/less rational emotions) you are very susceptible to latching on to anything which gives you an "out" or makes you think perhaps the scary thing that you don't really want to do might not be necessary.

There is an industry that latches onto this kind of fear and uses it as a starting point to hook you into their agenda - the whole "alternative health industry".

If you look at a lot of alternative health stuff, it's all cleverly worded to prey on fears and doubts about "mainstream medicine". This is because the more people who doubt mainstream medicine, the more people will search for an alternative, and that's how they get their customer base. It's very insidious.

Now, I have no doubt that some people lap this up because it makes sense to them, because of some previous poor experience with the medical profession or an underlying fear or whatever it is, and they believe it and pass on the information in good faith.

It doesn't stop it from being a very tempting narrative.

If you're feeling really anxious about having a vaccine or taking your child to have a vaccine, and somebody tells you well, you know you don't have to do it, right? And it's not really that effective anyway. Your immediate response wouldn't normally be "shut up you nutter", it will be "What do you mean?? Why not?" and if there is a plausible-sounding answer that gets you off the hook, someone feeling anxious or afraid is very likely to be intrigued by that and go looking for further validation. And thanks to the internet, it's incredibly easy to find. It doesn't matter at this point that all of the antivax sites look shoddy and amateur - this is in contrast to the official health bodies whose websites are very slick and well designed and polished. That actually serves the antivaxxers well, because it comes across as "We're the real people, you can trust us, that's a shiny corporate front."

If you don't feel anxious about medical procedures or needles, perhaps this sounds completely off the wall to you, so try imagining it with any scenario or situation that you absolutely dread. Maybe it's public speaking, or job interviews, or flying. If someone told you tomorrow that you never had to do that thing ever again but it wouldn't involve any sacrifices or loss in your life, you'd jump onto that suggestion, wouldn't you? You wouldn't just dismiss it as rubbish. You'd want to know more.