Why do people seem to want to believe vaccines aren't effective?

[Notabove25]

Or not effective enough?

All the evidence I've seen, seems to be that even one dose offers a very high level of protection against becoming seriously ill, even if it can't protect you 100% from ever returning a positive test.

Why do some people seem desperate to believe that vaccination won't help, that there's still a high possibility of getting long Covid after the jab, that mutations will render it useless etc?

To my mind, most of the most vulnerable are now vaccinated or will be very soon, which is excellent news and really should mean we can start getting back to normal. Why do so many seem to want to believe otherwise?

Because its been far too easy to do fuck all/not participate in society/not have to go into work etc 'COZ COVID'. The vaccines remove this and now we have to go back to normal.

Some people enjoy having stuff to panic about or spread conspiracy theory over. They enjoy lambasting others for trying to live their lives. Sad, sad individuals.

@notthegobbyoneagain

well I do not trust this Gov with anything, given their track record.

Dithering and inadequate quarantine/border controls have now let this Brazil mutant in to put the whole vaccination programme in jeopardy

But the government have created the vaccines. 🤷‍♀️

you forgot - ok it works but the whole world population will now be infertile :)

People will deny it, but I really do think lots of folk are sorely disappointed that Britain's vaccine roll-out has been a roaring success, especially compared to its neighbours. They were ready to post their 'See? I told you this government couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. Britain is the laughing stock of the world' and 'How is it that (unnamed) other countries can manage this and we can't?' posts and are now quite frustrated that well, they just can't.

Because some people understand how vaccines work.

If there is a variant that changes the bit that the vaccine responds to substantially enough that the vaccine can't recognise it, then the vaccine won't prevent that virus from causing illness. Scientists don't know for sure what the response will be to the new variants, but there is some evidence that the antibodies are not recognising the newer versions of the virus, as they have changed at that particular part. There is reasonable evidence to suggest that this means they won't be as effective, and if that variant took hold and became dominant, then the virus could easily start to spread exponentially again, until new vaccines were produced.

There isn't enough evidence yet to determine just how much the change in the virus affects the antibodies, but lab tests show there is some effect. There are also other ways that the immune system has of attacking a virus, so the antibodies aren't the only thing, so that will also help. New vaccines that are changed so that the body produces new antibodies to the changed bit are being developed - but it's important that the new strains don't take off and become dominant before that happens. New vaccines are also being developed that are able to target a particular part of the virus that doesn't change very much. The spike part, which the current vaccines target, mutates more than other parts of the virus. It's harder to develop a vaccine that uses those other parts instead, but it is being worked on, and that would provide a vaccine that is more resistant to the mutations for a longer time.

I definitely want to believe vaccines will work, and I was always very convinced that they would be able to find one. And it's clear that if it reduced disease significantly, it was also very likely to reduce transmission (that was just not what the initial trials were designed to measure). But I also understand why scientists - who know how the vaccines work - are concerned about some of the variants, and how it is hard to explain that to people who don't necessarily have that knowledge, without sounding pessimistic. We are at a time when we have to be really careful, or it is possible that the vaccine programme will be in jeopardy. Not definite, but possible - a lot still depends on luck, what happens to the virus, how it mutates, how that mutation spreads, and when that happens compared to the timing of the mass vaccinations.

@IcedPurple

5 months ago it was 'I don't think they'll ever get a vaccine. Sorry'.

Then it became 'I'm afraid the vaccines don't prevent transmission'.

Now we have 'You do realise the vaccines won't be effective against variants?'

What's next? Any guesses?

I predict something related to Long Covid.

I find it most baffling when it’s people who are quite vehemently opposed to lockdown and restrictions who are also sceptical of the vaccine. You’d think they would embrace it as the way out. Similarly, those campaigning hard for school reopening in the summer who also wanted no safety measures. It’s like these people are weirdly pro-covid and seem to be arguing for a situation that creates the inevitability of all the things they don’t want eg more lockdowns. We are so lucky to have the vaccines we do, I can’t understand the backlash.

I think a lot of it on here is that a huge number of posters seem incapable of reading the news, getting proper information or even just using google effectively. They rely on Mumsnet for the information that they want. You see it all the time on threads. They come on asking about things that are widely available just by using google.
You will then see a long line of wrong or outdated information being posted in response. Some of this will be intentional by people that believe in the conspiracies, are anti vac etc. A huge amount of it is just people repeating what they saw on here last week, blindly accepting that one poster who says they are in the know must be right.These responses are then parroted on other threads and so the cycle continues.
It reminds me of the beginning where every thread had someone banging on about antibac gel not being effective. Many people on here chose to believe that rather than follow the science. There was actually a thread started last week and a poster came on to say that antibac doesn't work, it's a virus etc. They apparantly had been living under a rock for the last year and had missed all the information to the contrary.
I have seen people on here claim to be nurses, doctors, scientists etc and people blindly accept what they say.
I only come across this type of thinking on here and on social media sites. In my day to day life thankfully most people I interact with are capable of at least beginning to understand the science if it is explained in laymans terms.

@notthegobbyoneagain

well I do not trust this Gov with anything, given their track record.

Dithering and inadequate quarantine/border controls have now let this Brazil mutant in to put the whole vaccination programme in jeopardy

How is the whole programme in jeopardy?

6 cases of which none so far have led to anyone else being infected can't possibly put the vaccination of 40 million people at risk. Can you explain a bit more the chain of events you're worried about?

Use the Kent variant as an example. It started with a very small number of cases but has since become the dominant strain in the UK quickly overtaking the original strain.

If most of the population is vaccinated against the original and Kent strain, as with the vaccines being used now, the population will be just as vulnerable to the Brazil strain as if they had had no vaccine and thus the Brazil strain will infect the population and become the dominant strain of Covid putting us right back to square one until an updated vaccine is produced in the autumn, but by then there will be more mutations and I fear we will be going to be playing catch-up for a long time to get on top of this pandemic.

I do not think I am being pessimistic, just realistic. I have heard similar from scientists on various news channels over the last few weeks.

I know 3 people all with diabetes who have had a severe reaction to the vaccine in the past 2 -3 weeks
2 of them are in hospital at the moment and one of them was on oxygen

Yes they are elderly but until they had the jab they were both managing at home ok on there own
Both had similar symptoms of numbness and loss of use both of their sugar levels went through the roof both upwards and downward and they still aren’t right now but they both seem to be over the worse

The other one who had the jab her arm & hand swelled up and she had complete numbness in the arm that had the jab couldn’t even pick up any hold a cup of tea or anything remove the lid of a bottle of milk
That was over a week ago and the swelling had only just started to go dorm and getting feelings back in his hand
I will have my jab when I am able to get it as I don’t have any underlying conditions but If I’m honest I would prefer not to having seen the reactions of the people I know

Personal experiences? We had our vax a month ago, we now have an outbreak at work and 1 person so far has died from covid. I know it takes around 21 days to offer protection but one would’ve hoped it would of prevented death even before 21 days since vax. Several staff still off ill with covid even after their isolation has ended as they’re still not well.

@Thimbleberries

Because some people understand how vaccines work.

If there is a variant that changes the bit that the vaccine responds to substantially enough that the vaccine can't recognise it, then the vaccine won't prevent that virus from causing illness. Scientists don't know for sure what the response will be to the new variants, but there is some evidence that the antibodies are not recognising the newer versions of the virus, as they have changed at that particular part. There is reasonable evidence to suggest that this means they won't be as effective, and if that variant took hold and became dominant, then the virus could easily start to spread exponentially again, until new vaccines were produced.

There isn't enough evidence yet to determine just how much the change in the virus affects the antibodies, but lab tests show there is some effect. There are also other ways that the immune system has of attacking a virus, so the antibodies aren't the only thing, so that will also help. New vaccines that are changed so that the body produces new antibodies to the changed bit are being developed - but it's important that the new strains don't take off and become dominant before that happens. New vaccines are also being developed that are able to target a particular part of the virus that doesn't change very much. The spike part, which the current vaccines target, mutates more than other parts of the virus. It's harder to develop a vaccine that uses those other parts instead, but it is being worked on, and that would provide a vaccine that is more resistant to the mutations for a longer time.

I definitely want to believe vaccines will work, and I was always very convinced that they would be able to find one. And it's clear that if it reduced disease significantly, it was also very likely to reduce transmission (that was just not what the initial trials were designed to measure). But I also understand why scientists - who know how the vaccines work - are concerned about some of the variants, and how it is hard to explain that to people who don't necessarily have that knowledge, without sounding pessimistic. We are at a time when we have to be really careful, or it is possible that the vaccine programme will be in jeopardy. Not definite, but possible - a lot still depends on luck, what happens to the virus, how it mutates, how that mutation spreads, and when that happens compared to the timing of the mass vaccinations.

Exactly this. I'm not an anti-vaxxer - I've had my first dose - but I think it is best to assess the evidence objectively and acknowledge that there are gaps in our knowledge and ability to predict the future!

oh god they've arrived ......

They're here...

Is it people don't want to believe or are simply asking questions?

Ah yes, the "I was just asking a question" defence.

Thing is, they aren't usually asking a question, they are making a statement based on doing their own research**

e.g. can I ask for Pfizer vaccine as the AZ one has been proven not to work?

• watching ** someone else's * you tube

To be honest I was on the edge of my seat. Some people are just more cautious than others, and I just didn't want to 'celebrate' too early. The government has had a record of over promising and under delivering. I'm old enough to remember when track and trace was supposed to allow us to reopen. I am sure I wasn't the only one feeling this way.

It always amazes me how many people have rigid views completely unrelated to facts...
I think our scientists have widely and clearly outlined each stage of this pandemic, and the results at each stage of the vaccination development and implementation, on the BBC news, daily.
Yet some people still seem unable to comprehend the facts.

You cannot reason with stupid

I know of over 20,275,400 people who"ve had a vaccination and been absolutely fine.

I win 🥳

If most of the population is vaccinated against the original and Kent strain, as with the vaccines being used now, the population will be just as vulnerable to the Brazil strain as if they had had no vaccine

Stop it.

It's possible the vaccines may be less effective against the 'Brazil strain', but 'less' does not equal ineffective. So your claim above is nonsense.

I do not think I am being pessimistic, just realistic.

Classic!

I have heard similar from scientists on various news channels over the last few weeks.

Which 'scientists' said that vaccines provide zero protection against the 'Brazil strain'? Have you got links?

Fear?
Just catching headlines and panicking?
I’ve had my first dose and I’m so happy! No it won’t necessarily stop me catching COVID. No it may not be so effective with regards to future strains. But yes. It gives me a much better chance of not fucking dying. So yay!!!!

"It's possible the vaccines may be less effective against the 'Brazil strain', but 'less' does not equal ineffective"

It also does not equal "effective" does it?

You clearly have an agenda - showing that the UK vaccine rollout is better than in other countries - which appears to be affecting your ability to be objective

www.newscientist.com/article/mg24933233-500-first-universal-coronavirus-vaccine-will-start-human-trials-this-year/

This is really exciting. People will lose their shit when there is a vaccine that’s effective against all mutants & all coronaviruses. What on earth else will they doom about?! 😂

@im5050 - you seriously know 3 people who’ve had serious allergic reactions? There’s been next to none reported but you happen to know 3 of them? Oke Doke.

oh ffs this happens every year with flu - they will adjust the vaccines to address variants - this will be much more pertinent next winter - hopefully they will be ready in time. This does not invalidate the entire vaccination program!