Vaccine discussion - What research is out there? (title edited at OP's request)

[GoneCrazy]

A new variant:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56233038

And the most used vaccine here is AstraZeneca Oxford. Our elderly and most vulnerable seem to have been vaccinated with the least effective of the vaccines.

Will we be able to control the risk of the variants?

We need to support the world in upping its speed of vaccination. At what point should we be really giving our excess vaccine to other countries for the greater good?!

If other countries are not vaccinated at the same time what is the point of us being ahead if we let in new variants?

Just a few of the million questions I have around vaccines and our programme.

As this is now a vaccines and vaccination discussion - what do you think about the situation overseas in continental Europe and EU vaccination of vaccines from more sources including China and Russia? Are we missing out on perfectly fit for purpose other vaccines? Some of these vaccines are used in the Middle East including geographies where financial connotations are unlikely as they tend to pay top dollar to import the best of everything eg UAE.

To add to @MRex's excellent post on the previous page - when describing one vaccine as "better" or "worse" because of their different effectiveness against new variants - which is as yet not really known in the real world - I think it's important to remember the following: when both AZ and Pfizer were designed, these variants did not yet exist.

The scientists did not do anything wrong or inferior by designing the vaccine to deal with the threat in front of them at the time. They did exactly the right thing, for which we should be bloody grateful. If one turns out to be better than the other, that is sheer bloody luck, rather than anybody making a mistake. Furthermore, both labs will have a booster available by the Autumn which will be more effective against the particular troublesome mutation K whatever it is.

Anxiety is a bugger, isn't it? But we (by which I mean, the world, not the UK specifically) have some amazing scientists who are right on top of this thing.

what do you think about the situation overseas in continental Europe and EU vaccination of vaccines from more sources including China and Russia?

I think they've sensibly bought and used tested vaccines which were available to them at that point.

Thank you MN. I did not want to transfer my anxiety onto others

OP if you are on twitter go and have a look at the vaccine effect!

t.co/60aqpVk383

New report out today is interesting
www.gov.uk/government/news/new-data-show-vaccines-reduce-severe-covid-19-in-older-adults

Shows that ONE dose of the AZ vaccine is superior to TWO doses of the Pfizer vaccine in protecting the older age groups. Note, the 95% CI range is quite wide so the study doesn't really prove one is better than the other. But much of the belief that the AZ vaccine is inferior stems from the %'s reported in the trials where Pfizer seemed to come out ahead.

In short, they seem to be equally good which is the good news.

The caution is that they're far from perfect. Click through to the actual document and see Tables 3 and 5:
In the over 70's the AZ vaccine after 21 days caused a reduction in +ve cases of ~50% - within those testing positive their odds of dying were also 50% lower. In short, if you're over 80 and have been vaccinated 21 days ago, your odds of dying are now 1/4 what they were before, which is great, but it's a long way from bulletproof so keep social distancing!

NB - the data doesn't cover AZ 2nd dose which is likely to improve things further.

*Because the "debates" are mainly started by idiots who don't understand the first thing about vaccine efficacy, and think it's OK to start a load of scare stories that will freak out people who have had/are planning to have a particular vaccine.

Putting people off being vaccinated will prolong this whole nightmare and put us all at risk.*

Yes this!! ^^

People need to be way more careful starting threads like this on topics they don’t understand - far too many armchair scientists around. No problem with people questioning and seeking to understand but statements like:

“the wrong vaccine”, “the least effective vaccine” are incredibly damaging and purposefully misleading.

As above both vaccines are INCREDIBLY effective. Instead of changing the title you should have had this thread deleted. How do you feel about putting people off being vaccinated because they are ‘only’ 90% effective?

@KeepWashingThoseHands my initial thread was not on putting people off but on which vaccine was best for our most vulnerable.

There has been opportunity for education - which I’m grateful for the information. Perhaps someone who wasn’t going to take a certain vaccine will take either now as they have understood that both are effective? Or perhaps someone who has one over the other was feeling anxious but now doesn’t? Even though I’m getting all the slating from the articles posted you can see I’m one of many asking the same questions.

Thankfully MN’ers have posted other articles/ statistics reassuring people.

If you want to get the thread removed then do that but I believe it’s important for people to have access to information on here.

@GoneCrazy

Agreed - nobody should ever feel attacked for asking questions and it's more important than ever now that they feel comfortable doing so.

I agree nobody should be slated for asking questions. I’ve answered many on lots of threads - to those who ‘asked’ questions - as opposed to starting threads using incorrect ‘statements’. Big difference.

See what’s happened in Germany and France etc. over incorrect statements made there about vaccine data and now see take up. It’s dangerous.

@KeepWashingThoseHands it was a question ‘Did we vaccinate our vulnerable with the wrong vaccine?’ It wasn’t a statement. Secondly perhaps there are people out there who were concerned about the stance Europe was taking and have been reassured by this thread.

I trust Sarah Gilbert in all this madness.

She was right last spring about AZ and she right again now. She knows her stuff.

Oxford AZ have already made the starter 'soup' for variants and it will be grown to make boosters ready for this autumn. They have had genomic sequence samples of the mutations throughout the pandemic. They are sent from all over the world to Oxford.

We can give boosters to everyone despite which vaccine they have had already. There is no wrong vaccine, the AZ is effective with one jab Sonia Pfizer. And latest research shows that the second jab of Pfizer doesn't increase efficacy. It's just as effective with one jab but I expect the second will help longer term immunity.

At the moment the world isn't vaccinated and will give rise to a higher number of mutations.
Once the world is vaccinated the picture we see now, will change for the better, becoming more stable and be like the annual flu jabs.

Take whatever is offered and get the booster jab when it becomes available. We are in one of the strongest positions on the planet if we all get that jab!

Stability is coming.....

Thank you @purplebagladylovesgin!!