Vaccine discussion - What research is out there? (title edited at OP's request)

[GoneCrazy]

A new variant:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56233038

And the most used vaccine here is AstraZeneca Oxford. Our elderly and most vulnerable seem to have been vaccinated with the least effective of the vaccines.

Will we be able to control the risk of the variants?

We need to support the world in upping its speed of vaccination. At what point should we be really giving our excess vaccine to other countries for the greater good?!

If other countries are not vaccinated at the same time what is the point of us being ahead if we let in new variants?

Just a few of the million questions I have around vaccines and our programme.

They are testing at the moment to see if mixing the 2 vaccines will give a better immune response, it will be interesting what the results will be.

sorry 55% of doses in one week were Pfizer, in previous weeks the % of Pfizer was higher - around 80% in January for example

What is never mentioned is that Pfizer is a very impractical vaccine

It could never be any use to rural areas or poor countries because the -70 storage requirement is a huge logistical barrier in those settings.

The wasted doses issue mainly arises with Pfizer because it can only be 5 days out of a -70 storage which only big regional centres will have. Once it's out you can't put it back.

It was really hard to get Pfizer to care homes and housebound elderly for that reason. It's great for huge central vaccine centres where you can do 100s at a time but not so much for doing 10s a day.

The efficacy isn't the most important thing really. Safety is most important and then just getting as many vaccinated as possible to protect even the unvaccinated via herd immunity. That's where a vaccine that is cheap and easy to use is actually a winner.

If the vaccine is 70% effective you need to get more people done than if it's 90% but if it's easier to use then you can do that.

People make way too much of the differences. Any approved vaccine is by definition effective enough. Getting as many done as fast as possible with whatever is the best strategy

If you wait for the 'best' one and get COVID whilst you are waiting then that's a dumb decision.

Also it's a pointless debate.
Pfizer can't supply enough vaccine for the whole world. Therefore we can't vaccinate everyone with that one even if we wanted to. If we order some more at this late stage it won't be here in time to help.
We haven't seen a sniff of any Moderna vaccine here although it's effective and approved because the US have all the supplies.
We actually need as many different effective vaccines with different mechanisms as we can lay our hands on to defeat this.
Every vaccine should be welcome.

A few facts here - and history lest people be misguided by false news from elsewhere.

The whole vaccine comparison is ONLY because the initial trial result data was made public. I don't know how many people have followed the numerous different sets of data but if they had they'd see that the numbers fluctuate - A LOT! The trials were there to establish TWO things - firstly if the vaccines were SAFE, and secondly to find out if they had sufficient efficacy - anything more than 60% would have been good. The %'s reported are based on a relatively small number of cases so there is a lot of margin for error here - more useful data has emerged SINCE the vaccination programs began. Here the differences between the vaccines is a lot closer with ALL showing great success at preventing severe disease. As a bonus they are also showing great success at reducing transmission.

So if your concern is your own health/survival, it is of no consequence WHICH vaccine you are given. But bear in mind that the vaccine is only ONE part of your defence. No vaccine is 100% effective at protecting individuals! So best to continue to social distance until we are getting substantially reduced community transmission!

Unhelpful thread Op. it’s exactly this kind of thread and title that instills fear in people.

The title is sensationalist. Is that because you wanted to provoke a debate or to make people worried? If you simply had a question about the vaccines, there are lots of titles that would enable you to ask that without making lots of people, especially those who’ve had the Oxford vaccine go away and feel shit or feel shit and their parents having had Oxford.....when getting any approved vaccine is a massive privilege and the fact 1/3 of our adult population have already had it whilst most parts of the world haven’t even got started is amazing.

It’s fine to have concerns and ask questions, but please think about how you ask and do t do it in an way to I still panic in other people....that’s a crap thing to do.

And to those saying debate is fine..well it can be in the right context.

When people have knowledge about what they are discussing and when they can discuss it in a context that isnt full of fear or in a manner that wont provoke fear (or is sometimes designed to do that) and be headline grabbing, then it can be okay.

But when lots of people are worried and start thinking that what their parents have been given won’t help them, titles like the one in this thread don’t help. Fine to ask questions, fine to discuss in the right context, but people have a duty to consider the context.

When people go for their flu jag they don’t ask what brand of vaccine they are getting so why is everybody suddenly so obsessed with which vaccine they are getting for covid?

Just be bloody grateful we are getting them at all, for free as well.

My elementary understanding of the science is that all currently administered vaccines in the UK offers adequately good protection to the current Covid variants although there are different technologies involved and possibly a slight variance as to which is preferred for very rare allergies. Otherwise they are all good and I can't wait. However I am way way down the medical vulnerability age scale so I may eventually be vaccinated by one of the new forthcoming vaccines possibly even the Johnson & Johnson single shot one perhaps if authorised and procured when it's my turn later this year. I just hope the current Spring weather and some increasing lack of lockdown mutual safety requirements do not push the new evolving mutations to defeat the efficacy of current vaccines.

With respect to the idea the Pfizer vaccine is “better”, some people only have low quality journalism to base their unscientific opinions on and that’s where the real problems lie.

@partyatthepalace Jesus Christ -
- All of the vaccines work. There is less data on AZ right now. They will all have strengths and weaknesses.
- The key thing right now is that the vaccines work well enough to keep people out of hospital so the NHS doesn't fall over and we can get back to normal. They do all work well enough for this.
- The point of a mass vaccination programme is also that the vast majority of the population are protected so the virus cannot spread
- There will be yearly boosters to deal with variants.
- We should all be thanking our lucky stars we live somewhere with a vaccine programme

Why. Is. All. This. Too. Hard. For. So. Many. People. To. Understand.

I share your frustration.

In fact am going to report this thread. The title is unhelpful and sensationalist.

@Womencanlift

When people go for their flu jag they don’t ask what brand of vaccine they are getting so why is everybody suddenly so obsessed with which vaccine they are getting for covid?

Just be bloody grateful we are getting them at all, for free as well.

Absolutely this!

Someone posted something the other day that resonated - the fact someone has had a vaccine at all places them in a tiny proportion of the world’s population and is a real privilege.

@Blessex

In fact am going to report this thread. The title is unhelpful and sensationalist.

@Blessex

Good idea!

[quote GoneCrazy]@Iamanunsafebuilding no point in us being the only vaccinated country though[/quote]
Given how terrible the uk has been at preventing spread and preventing death there is EVERY point in vaccinating as much as we possibly can regardless of what’s happening elsewhere. We’re saving the lives of almost a thousand people per day!!!!

It’s a bloody scandal if AZ vaccine is sitting in EU fridges unused. An absolute travesty and scandal. And it is because of the media, politicians and people writing threads like this.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

Why can we not have a debate about the difference between the vaccines?

Because the "debates" are mainly started by idiots who don't understand the first thing about vaccine efficacy, and think it's OK to start a load of scare stories that will freak out people who have had/are planning to have a particular vaccine.

Putting people off being vaccinated will prolong this whole nightmare and put us all at risk.

@whichjab @Dustyboots

As the PP above says, thread is not a debate, it’s someone having a panic because they haven’t done the basic research about the vaccine programme. This in turn encourages a load of other people to panic, which will in turn damage the likelihood of people going for whatever vaccine is available.

I have no problem with debate, I have a huge problem with scaremongering, which as a country we cannot afford at a moment when we are economically on our knees. This matters more than being ‘polite’.

@partyatthepalace exactly. It isn’t a polite debate. It is spreading misinformation, scaring people and worst putting people off having a vaccine. And I am now over this. It is over privileged whining about nothing.

@Blessex

It’s a bloody scandal if AZ vaccine is sitting in EU fridges unused. An absolute travesty and scandal. And it is because of the media, politicians and people writing threads like this.

Our government have been ridiculously nationalistic over the vaccine too, they tried to put bloody union flags on the bottles the stupid muppets! And my parents have heard more than one set of neighbours who 'want the British vaccine' FFS.

@ChameleonClara whatever. I don’t know about that. But happy people are asking for whichever vaccine honestly. Better than slagging off something that prevents loss of life.

As far as variants go, the threat of sa or Brazilian is absolutely tiny. Our frothing media has made this into a far bigger issue than it should be.

The Kent variant is doing a brilliant job of spreading and until we all have immunity from it through vaccine it will continue to thrive. Hence why JVT has repeatedly said that the variants will not be a threat for several months.

OK they are "of concern" but we really need to get this in proportion...

[quote Blessex]@ChameleonClara whatever. I don’t know about that. But happy people are asking for whichever vaccine honestly. Better than slagging off something that prevents loss of life.[/quote]
I think turning down Pfizer or delaying for reasons of vaccine nationality is pretty foolish. Which is what is happening apparently.

@ChameleonClara yes but Clara. That is totally different! That is not because anybody is running round spreading false efficacy information or politicians telling people not to use the Pfizer vaccine. That is because some individuals are parochial and stupid. Up to them.

I think it's just two sides of the same problem tbh.

There is data that Pfizer is less effective on obese people coming from Italy.

I had Pfizer, and I’m obese - but I’m not from Italy, so hopefully I’ll be fine