Astrazeneca v Pfizer.

[Tolkienista]

I had my first jab on Thurs the Astrazeneca vaccine. Felt dreadful Thurs night, but took a couple of paracetamol and thankfully felt back to normal yesterday.

Spoke to my next door neighbour this morning who had his vaccine yesterday in the same centre as me and received the Pfizer vaccine. I know it's pot luck which you get on the day, but why do I feel cheated out of a better vaccine? Have only started looking at the statistics which seem to err on the side of Pfizer and the fact that some European countries are not using their allocation of Astrazeneca, making me feel like I got second best.

Any thoughts?

Are you looking at the statistics for your age group? I've had the Oxford one and don't feel cheated, I'm 53. My neighbour has had the Pfizer vaccine, he's 77, for him the Pfizer is the better one. As long as we get a good uptake, it won't matter because there won't be a lot of Covid floating around.

In the recent Scottish data AZ actually performed better than Pfizer in terms of reducing the risk of hospitalisation (although both performed brilliantly).

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-56153600

Both vaccines are great so I really wouldn't give it a second thought to be honest.

Both vaccines are great, I'd be very happy with either.

@Sunshinegirl82

In the recent Scottish data AZ actually performed better than Pfizer in terms of reducing the risk of hospitalisation (although both performed brilliantly).

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-56153600

Both vaccines are great so I really wouldn't give it a second thought to be honest.

Exactly, but still people don't want to hear this.

Just had astra zenica this morning could not have pfizer as am likely to react to vaccines. Really happy to have a jab of any sort

Swings and roundabouts. They’re both fantastic.
Really don’t think feeling “cheated” is justified. 6 months ago we had neither 🤷‍♀️

Can’t wait for my turn, whichever it is.

There’s more data on Pfizer due to Israel. Soon there’ll be more data on AZ. Stop moaning you’ve had a vaccine which is more than the vast majority of the world have had

I will be delighted to get either and in terms of which one is 'better', it's not at all clear cut, as that Scottish study shows. What IS clear is that the overall effect of people nationwide being vaccinated with either vaccine is spectacular and that herd immunity is what will crush Covid and allow us to get back to normal life again.

If you're going on the initial data on effectiveness provided by the developers of the two vaccines, then yes Pfizer would appear to have a slightly higher effectiveness, but the data was gathered in slightly different ways and therefore can't be directly compared. Also, real world data is adding new information all the time, and AZ's real world data looks better than its initial figures. So please don't feel you've been cheated. You are one of the very luckiest people on Earth right now to have had any kind of vaccine, so thank your lucky stars!

AZ has been better tested with the 12 week gap we're delivering it with.
Pfizer not tested with the 12 weeks as much, Israel did what they were told in terms of gap between 1 and 2.

I know which one I'd go for on that basis.

No one should care though, it's ace we've got any at all.

You are one of the very luckiest people on Earth right now to have had any kind of vaccine, so thank your lucky stars!

Yep, that's perfectly put.

In central Europe the consensus is that Pfizer is better. There have been so many refusals for AZ that vaccine groups are being moved forward by 3-4 weeks. Obviously most people are grateful for any type of vaccine but purely based on data, the mRNA vaccines are more effective.

Since the method of action is significantly different, it's like comparing apples and oranges. Pfizer/Moderna use mRNA technology and AZ uses "standard" vaccine technology with a weakened version of the virus. Some might prefer AZ because the method is tried and tested and the effectiveness is comparable to the flu vaccine (60%) which is already very good. The mRNA vaccines have a spectacular rate of effectiveness (95%) but the technology is very new and they can also cause more allergic side effects. The doctors office where we got our Pfizer shots said they already had a serious anaphylactic reaction in one patient.

Why does the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine appear to have a higher efficacy than the Pfizer vaccine?

I can think of a couple of reasons that could potentially explain why the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine had a higher efficacy in this study.

The first being that Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 prioritised vaccinations in Care homes and so utilised the initial Pfizer stocks on those older people most vulnerable to COVID infection. The Oxford AstraZeneca vaccination likely seeing more use amongst independent individuals in better health living in the community.

The second is that Vaccines utilising virus vectors such as the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine generate a higher proportion of their overall effectiveness through the 1st dose. The T cell levels being close to the maximum just 2-3 weeks after the 1st dose of the vaccine.

The differences between the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccines are not very significant when it comes to T cell levels that are thought to be a key component of protecting against severe disease.

The Pfizer vaccine does produce higher levels of neutralising antibody after two doses, which is the likely reason why after 2 doses it has a higher efficacy in preventing symptomatic disease. The levels of neutralising antibody being the crucial factor in preventing infection. If the antibodies can prevent infection, they will also prevent disease (both symptomatic and asymptomatic).
coviddatareview.wordpress.com/2021/02/22/trying-to-understand-vaccine-efficacy/amp/?

In central Europe the consensus is that Pfizer is better. There have been so many refusals for AZ that vaccine groups are being moved forward by 3-4 weeks.

Yes partly based on lack of understanding.

There seems to be some kind of campaign of misinformation running about the AZ vaccine. Its either deliberate or ignorance.
Either way it will end up costing more people their life which is pretty shameful.

If it makes you feel any better Pfizer is supposed to cause more reactions on its second dose. I don’t feel cheated by getting AZ (and I had a fairly strong reaction but that comes down to the individual), I feel lucky I’ve got a vaccine dose already and have some protection, can’t wait for the second dose.

people never normally know what is the brand of any vaccination.
too much knowledge about it all is creating conversations which would have been unheard of

Never has the the phrase First World Problems been more appropriate...

It honestly doesn’t matter what you get. Once most of us are vaccinated, COVID can’t spread, and life can get back to normal.

We know they both work. There is more data on Pfizer right now. We’ll likely need to have top ups to manage the variants so they’ll keep adjusting anyway.

All the vaccines give virtually 100% protection against severe disease, hospitalisation & death so I wouldn't give a second thought to which one you get.

Bear in mind that in the EU the AstraZeneca vaccine is only licensed for under 65s so no-one over 65 can have it.
As they are starting with the most elderly and working downwards, it is only logical for not much AZ to have been used compared to other vaccines.

Plus I do know people who have felt pretty lousy for several days after Pfizer (including the second dose) so it is not a case that it is better in that respect either. No-one can say who will get side effects from either vaccine.

Bear in mind that in the EU the AstraZeneca vaccine is only licensed for under 65s so no-one over 65 can have it.

Open to correction but I'm not sure that's quite right..it has not recommended for over 65s in certain EU countries but even that advice is changing...

www.politico.eu/article/french-government-opens-door-to-astrazeneca-vaccine-for-the-elderly/

I thought the data for the AZ one was looking good?

I had it on Thursday, at the end of the day this is the one most of us will get

I had no reactions from pzifer except a sore arm, dh had chills after AZ.
swings and roundabouts

@bigginswitch
Bear in mind that in the EU the AstraZeneca vaccine is only licensed for under 65s so no-one over 65 can have it.

Not true - the EMA (European Medicines Agency, their version of our MHRA) licensed it for use in all ages. Why do people post stuff they clearly haven’t checked?

Some countries have said they would like more data before using it on over 65s. Macron did a hatchet job on it and has just been forced to back pedal.

AZ typically causes a reaction after the first dose but not the second. Pfizer is the other way round. You are also more likely to react if you are younger and if you have already had covid.

I know what you mean. I went to my vaccine appt very grateful for a jab and assuming I would get the Oxford. But when I went in there they had both and it was literally where you were in the queue which one you got. If I had a choice I would have had Pfizer as it’s standing up better to the South African variant and that’s now in the village next to our’s. But when my turn came up I ended up in a booth which was doing Oxford. My hubby got Pfizer and I am glad as he is more vulnerable than me. The gp doing my jab said they are considering doing trials would people who have had Oxford getting Pfizer as their second jab. To be honest for me it’s not the effectiveness in general between the two jabs it’s how they perform against the variants. I am hoping some better stats come through for the Oxford based on protection for the variants as at the moment it is assumed it will stop severe disease / death with these. Who knows - maybe it’s even better in the long run. We are part of a large experiment but we really don’t have much choice if we are in a vulnerable group.