Astrazeneca v Pfizer.

[Tolkienista]

I had my first jab on Thurs the Astrazeneca vaccine. Felt dreadful Thurs night, but took a couple of paracetamol and thankfully felt back to normal yesterday.

Spoke to my next door neighbour this morning who had his vaccine yesterday in the same centre as me and received the Pfizer vaccine. I know it's pot luck which you get on the day, but why do I feel cheated out of a better vaccine? Have only started looking at the statistics which seem to err on the side of Pfizer and the fact that some European countries are not using their allocation of Astrazeneca, making me feel like I got second best.

Any thoughts?

In trials, AZ swabbed all participants regularly so picked up a lot of asymptomatic cases.

Pfizer didn't test anyone without symptoms so missed all the asymptomatic cases.

This go a long way towards explaining the differences in efficacy demonstrated between vaccines.

You also have to remember differences in development - AZ was developed by a university in a "publish or perish" environment so everything about the vaccine was published rapidly - good or bad.

Pfizer was developed in a commercial environment - it only publishes the good information and what is legally required.

I would be very happy to take either vaccine.

Bought tears to my eyes when PP said you would be one of the luckiest people on the planet when you'd had the vaccine.. Thinking of all the people who might never be lucky enough to have it.. I'm so grateful for any vaccine.. Had mine today and as I really have to be at work on Monday I booked the earliest appt this morning.. My husband who is never ill had a bad reaction for a few days after the Astrazenica vaccine.. I had Pfizer so will see what happens.. But I'm prepared for it if it happens.

@Cornettoninja

Earth = early.

Previewing/proofreading is for wimps

You're well 'ard, innit?

@Adarajames Any vax is a great achievement however, so I really look forward to numbers increasing and is not having so many empty appointments each day!
Where are you? I reckon you can fill your appointments in about 3 minutes if you put the centre name on here. Hundreds of people posting in disappointment and not yet being called. DH and I would happily come if you're within reach. No need for wastage!

I’ve gad the pfizer one. If i could have had the choice, I would have had AZ as the technology is much wider used (mrna vaccines are very very bew). I didn’t get a choice so I happily accepted pfizer and was very grateful to be offered any vaccine

I was offered the Pfizer vaccine last week, but unfortunately have to wait for the Astra Zeneca one to come in, as I have allergies....hoping it come soon,and I don't get forgotten!

I don't care which one I get, I'm just desperate for the vaccine trials to enable ds (10) to have one.

@CakesOfVersailles yes! Wish more people understood these differences between the published data.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to post their comments....... really interesting reading through them all. Please let me make it clear, I am extremely grateful for receiving my astrazeneca jab, but in light of the rising rejection of it round Europe, just wondered what others thought of it.

I find these debates about which vaccine is best very frustrating (although at least it seems to have stopped people complaining they were developed too quickly!). The fact that we have not only one, but several safe and efficacious vaccines, which have been developed and manufactured and delivered to 20million people in the UK around a year after the start of the pandemic, is absolutely astounding. It is the result of amazing and very hard work by many many people. This is science at a speed that would have been unimaginable a few years ago. I work for one of the companies involved in this and have seen it first hand. It is incredible. How can anyone feel "cheated" receiving any of the approved vaccines?

Even if you were minded to compare, doubtless there will be many studies to come and the numbers will swing in different directions depending on the study design, population studied and outputs measured. We may find that different vaccines are more efficacious in different people or different areas. It's early days in terms of data.

why do I feel cheated out of a better vaccine?

That doesn't sound 'extremely grateful'. At this point I'd take the Chinese or Russian ones and think happy thoughts.

There seems to be some kind of campaign of misinformation running about the AZ vaccine. Its either deliberate or ignorance. Either way it will end up costing more people their life which is pretty shameful

This ^

In trials, AZ swabbed all participants regularly so picked up a lot of asymptomatic cases. Pfizer didn't test anyone without symptoms so missed all the asymptomatic cases. This go a long way towards explaining the differences in efficacy demonstrated between vaccines. You also have to remember differences in development - AZ was developed by a university in a "publish or perish" environment so everything about the vaccine was published rapidly - good or bad. Pfizer was developed in a commercial environment - it only publishes the good information and what is legally required

^ and this.

@zafferana & @MRex

I’m not going to name our centre, as we do already have people queueing at the end of the day in hopes of spare doses, all of whom are triaged by medical staff and the spares used on those most relevant to the current cohort being vaccinated, (or medical staff / teachers / emergency services as most agree they should be higher on priority) so we don’t waste any doses.

The particular hub I’m currently at and mostly talking about is in an area where there are a number of factors that are making it more difficult to encourage the current groups to be vaccinated, historical distrust of authority, language and cultural barriers to be overcome

Ops, hit send by accident!

Lots of work is being done to reach out to people, community groups, leaders, religious leaders are all supporting the drive to connect with those who are reluctant, as well as those that, through language barriers, have limited access to information provided to date. It’s a poor area with high BAME population, both groups that are far lower in uptake to date, but it’s being worked on and I feel privileged to not only have had my vaccine so soon in the programme, but also to be able to be helping out at the clinics and encouraging and supporting those who are nervous / uncertain about the programme for whom a volunteer is far less scary to talk to than medical staff

Good luck @Adarajames, I hope you get very busy there soon!

I had the AZ one and I’m glad - because it’s more like a traditional vaccine. Which I’m more comfortable with. But if I was offered Pfizer I’d have had that too.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9307729/Oxford-vaccine-effective-Pfizer-jab-new-figures-show.html
I’m not a fan of the Daily Fail but this looks very exciting and backs up the recent Scottish report on vaccine effectiveness. Hopefully the data will be out soon to back it up.

My dh had the az and my yd had the Pfizer injection and both happy with their jabs. My ed would like to have the az as she has crps and there is a risk the Pfizer one can cause a pain flare up which she would rather not happen.
I am happy with either, when it's my turn which will be next, apparently, and before my ed, which I am unhappy about but can do nothing about.

Again, many thanks to posters with some real knowledge and understanding for posting some much needed common sense about the data we have all been so badly misfed!

So I've read through all the posts and learnt so.much in the process. Thanks again for helping me to appreciate what I've been given and a better understanding of this vaccine and how it works. So much knowledge in one forum.

Good to hear that you are as happy as you should be @Tolkienista!

@User594022452

In central Europe the consensus is that Pfizer is better. There have been so many refusals for AZ that vaccine groups are being moved forward by 3-4 weeks. Obviously most people are grateful for any type of vaccine but purely based on data, the mRNA vaccines are more effective.

Since the method of action is significantly different, it's like comparing apples and oranges. Pfizer/Moderna use mRNA technology and AZ uses "standard" vaccine technology with a weakened version of the virus. Some might prefer AZ because the method is tried and tested and the effectiveness is comparable to the flu vaccine (60%) which is already very good. The mRNA vaccines have a spectacular rate of effectiveness (95%) but the technology is very new and they can also cause more allergic side effects. The doctors office where we got our Pfizer shots said they already had a serious anaphylactic reaction in one patient.

This is completely incorrect. AZ does not use "standard" vaccine technology with a "weakened version of the virus".

AZ technology is also new-ish, having been tested and developed in the past 10 years. The difference with Pfitzer is that it uses a replication-deficient adenovirus (i.e, as a little shuttle) to deliver coronavirus DNA into the recipient's cells. Once in a cell, the DNA is translated into RNA messenger, which in turn generates the production of the spike which our immune system detects and reacts against.

To sum it up, Pfizer (and Moderna)'s technology are one step ahead in biological terms by delivering the final instruction, the RNA Messenger. The AZ delivers DNA, which our body then turns into RNA. Pfizer and Moderna deliver the RNA messenger directly.

Again, the AZ does not use a weakened coronavirus. At all. Weakened viruses generally generate poor immune response. The AZ vaccine works along the same general principles as Pfizer's and Moderna's, but does it slightly differently.