So much for ‘protect the NHS’

[littlelionboss]

This is a ranty post & I apologise.

I’m really starting to get pissed off with the vaccine situation.

My area are now onto vaccinating the over 40’s!!!

I’ve got family & friends that have been called for theirs... fit, healthy, no underlying health conditions.

I’m early 30’s two health conditions and I’m in group 6 for the vaccine.

I can’t book online and when I’ve spoken to my GP (today) they’ve just said I will have to wait for them to contact me.

My sister in law has been given hers on the basis that she’s a carer.
She “cares” for her husband who has a bad back.
A back so bad that over the summer he’s completely transformed his back garden, alone!

It just really doesn’t seem fair at all.

I have a small child and I’m a single parent, surely I should be vaccinated as a carer?!

I know we are all entitled to the vaccine, but hasn’t the point all along beeb to protect the NHS?!

How are we protecting them by jumping ahead to the fit and healthy and leaving the vulnerable ones behind?!

@Scbchl

So sorry to read that. You may already have tried booking for your DM online but just incase, here is the link.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination/

@C8H10N4O2

Group 7 CAN book online I know this because I booked my father in law

Group 7 is 60-65, the website says 64 and over unless you have a letter/advice about CEV status. Is your FiL 64? It doesn't work for the 61 yr old I just tried to put through.

@C8H10N4O2

FIL is 61.

Yes it says over 64 online but NHS have confirmed that over 60’s can book online.

They obviously have a bit of leeway on the website. My husband turns 60 in early March and I managed to book him in for an appointment a few days before his birthday.

[quote Violinist64]@BungleandGeorge, in the end certain asthmatic patients, such as myself and my son, were included in group 6. We both have long acting reliever medicine in our preventative inhalers as well as our everyday relievers, so obviously there has been consideration of the degree of asthma. I have been very cautious throughout because, even if I were no less likely to die than the next person, I have had some bad attacks and chest infections and could become very poorly if l caught coronavirus.[/quote]
Some GPs have added additional patients but you don’t meet the criteria for group 6 unless you’ve had a hospital admission or multiple steroid courses in a short space of time. Which is based on mortality data. Some people disagree with the the classification, some of sh em are GPs. However you wouldn’t be able to insist because you don’t meet the criteria, there are loads of asthmatics on more treatment than you having to wait.

What slows it down is some people not being willing to travel to the mass centres (although there shouldn’t be anyone over 70 and probably 65 being asked to do that now,

There are plenty of pensioners over 65 waiting to be mopped up by GPs. Lots of people of that age are not able to drive 25 miles to a large centre. Letters were only sent a couple of weeks ago. You may see it as ‘slowing you down’ but many centres are only accessible by car, many people have shielded all year and don’t want to risk getting transport miles away into city centres with high rates of infection. You keep saying ‘not willing to travel’ there are lots of over 65s who can’t travel and who have serious comorbidity.

Bungle, but as we go further through the programme, those who genuinely cannot travel decline.

65-70 without health conditions are generally pretty mobile. Many are still in work or they are the early stage of retirement and living. Active lives. They can travel. These are people without health conditions that I'm talking about. They might prefer not to, but they can. And yes, the GP hubs are sweeping up those who can't travel for whatever reason as well as those who won't. The system does allow a choice and says if people choose not to go the mass centre offered, they can wait longer and get a local service. Well, that's their choice isn't it...if they don't take the first offer, they can have another, but it might take a further week or two. Most people will find a way to get there and have it because they know that having it sooner is better. Personally I think it should push more strongly for people to take what they are offered first and not imply there is a choice, unless someone really CANNOT travel rather than chooses not to. All the people in groups 5 and 7 who can now book online and who don't want to travel 30 mins are making it more difficult for those in Group 6 to be seen who cannot go to the mass centres, but have to wait for GP slots....and many of them are about to return to work.

In the earlier, older age groups, people knew that over 80s couldn't really travel far in many cases (although lots of people reported being willing to drive however far was necessary or relatives or charities were happy to take them). However, people in their 60s without health conditions are very different.

The reality is that there will be people in all age groups who would rather not travel 30 mins but go to the local site 10 mins away. That will apply to those in their 20s too when we get to that category. Of course going very local is more convenient for everyone. The question is whether people understand and the system strongly encourages people who are offered the mass centres a bit further away, to get in and take them.....because this is the way to speed through everyone faster. The mass centres have bottlenecks and lack of booking because too many people choose to wait and go local. At the same time, others would love to travel and get those appoint me ta and can't because of the priority system and the fact the vulnerable are done through GP led centres.

In a time of national emergency and pandemic, I just think people who can travel (and it might not be what they'd choose but with a bit of thought is very doable for most) should be prepared to do it and understand the bigger picture and that it's not just about what's most convenient for them,mbut speeding through everyone. But the message hasn't been loud and clear about this, perhaps becaue the government is more realistic about people's unwillingness to travel even 30 mins. So it will just take longer. And I gues the government has factored that in. My point is purely that if you can make the journey when invited to a mass centre, then you should.

Locally here they said the current eligible group did not want to travel, until the opened walk in for the eligible groups at the empty hubs. How can GPs know if you are willing to travel if you are still waiting and under strict rules not to contact.

GPs are not calling group 5 currently. Clearly I disagree with you I think there are lots of pensioners (the majority of over 65s are not working they’ve reached retirement age) who are unable to attend large vaccine centres. The distance is 30 miles not 30 minutes and a lot are inaccessible on public transport. They’ve been told to stringently distance and not go anywhere all year. I actually think it’s discrimination to only offer appointments 25 miles away based on age alone, when they could be much safer walking to their local centre. When Boris said everyone will be within 10 miles he didn’t say that some people would be barred from local options and expected to travel. They are a higher priority, they are at much greater risk than group 6. If they have to rely on sorting out lifts with family clearly that’s likely to cause significant delays. If you’re in an urban area and have both options locally then fair enough. Perhaps a good option would be to send letters to group 6 and then you can turn up anywhere with the letter and ID and wait to be seen. The most worried could then get quicker access.

Over 65s not able to get to a vaccination centre? I don’t know any 65-year-olds so decrepit that they couldn’t do this. And, barring serious health issues, no 75-year-olds either. In fact take-up where I live is virtually 100% so all those poor little old people managed to get there somehow....

Some people on this thread sound very spoilt and entitled. Moan, moan, moan, me, me, me....

I know plenty of people over 65 who can’t drive, or aren’t allowed to due to medical conditions, or who don’t want to leave the local area to go to one with a much higher prevalence of covid (people have been moaning all year that pensioners need to stay in!). I guess you don’t work in healthcare? They can attend their local centre, they can’t get to a place inaccessible by public transport. You could look at it that group 6 are getting done before their turn at the expense of group 5 being given sensible travel options and increasing their risk of contacting covid travelling out of area and on public transport.
None of this affects me, I can jump in my car easily but I can understand the situation of people who can’t and the older people are the more likely that is. People are anxious to get the vaccine but it will be offered but not everyone can be prioritised.

You obviously know an unusual group of 67 year olds Bungled. The ones round here are spritely, spend their time travelling abroad in normal times, volunteering, walking and going to the gym etc. They would not like to be described as pensioners, although they may have just started taking their pensions.

I don't know why you say they are significantly at greater risk than group 6 who have wide ranging medical conditions. They are further up the order due to age and have been called first, but if they choose to wait that is up to them.

It sounds to me like your issue is with people having to travel generally. Perhaps you yourself will not be keen to travel to a mass centre when your turn comes? The reality is that it's not feasible to provide cpvaccination centres within 10 minutes or 10 miles of everyone to the capacity to cover the whole population and ensure they run at capacity. Again, this is about the big picture and not personal convenience.

Mass centres are needed to help get through the volume required. There can only be a certain number of these for viability purposes which means they won't be within 10 miles of everyone. But they allow more peoole to be vaccinated everyday and speed is of the essence. GPs couldn't run more local hubs and do their normal work too....extra capacity had to be brought in and flexible capacity to cover large geographical areas.

People haven't been barred from their local options, but it is clearly the case that if everyone wants to only attend locally, it will take twice as long to vaccinate the population. Therefore they are encouraged to attend their centre a distance away, when they are age groups 5, 7,8,9 are not in medical groups 4 or 6. Groups 5,7,8,9 are generally in good health. Many have cars and their without can use public transport or volunteer services to get there. Most see it as an outing. These groups 5,7,8,9 have not been required to shield and just maintain normal social distancing throughout the pandemic.

I think perhaps you have an issue with travelling for whatever reason. From a point of getting most peoole vaccinated as fast as possible, it entirely makes sense for age groups below 70 without medical issues (not group 6) to get done largely in the big centres which should be able to rattle through vast numbers very fast. It's all about large numbers being done fast.

Your perceptions of the state of 65-9s, ideas they have all been shielding and that they are at far greater risk which requires localised vaccination than those in Group 6 with identified medical clinical concerns all seems a bit odd to be honest.

When it's your turn, if you want the local vaccine, and if you're called by age group to the mass centre, well you won't be obliged to accept it. You can wait and be done locally,mbut will have to wait a bit longer. It will be your choice. You might choose based on just what's convenient for you, or think too about the bigger picture of getting through a very large population as fast as poss.

I'm 65+ and so is a friend in a different area. We were both invited to attend our local gp hub, and then received the letter inviting us to book at the mass vaccine centre after we had already booked and had the jab locally.

All we thought at the time was that the most efficient thing to do all round was to take what we were offered, when it was offered, without quibbling.

If the invitation to the mass vaccine centre had come first, I'd have taken it, but I don't actually know where my mass vaccine centre is, and I don't drive, so have no idea how easily I could have got there.

@WombatChocolate risk is mainly related to age. Group 5 contains everybody with medical conditions who is age over 65. A lot of people over 65 would also satisfy the criteria for group 6 but they are also older so at more risk and a higher priority. You just seem to be totally ignoring the fact that there are a lot of people who genuinely can’t get to large centres 30 miles away in out of town locations. Some populations are not close to one of these centres and they’re not all accessible if you don’t have a car. Group 6 are being done at the same time as group 5, you’re essentially the one getting a higher priority than if they ran through the groups consecutively so I really don’t see why you are complaining that some people will be ‘slowing you down’ because they can’t get to a large site. Many people in group 5 are going to large sites but if they can’t then they should be able to go to a local site, and that is fine as they are a higher risk category than group 6.
You are trying to make this about what I would do personally, I am not over 65. However, I’m in contact with a wide section of that age group and can appreciate that there are real issues for some of them. Its not all about our own situation

Many in group 6 are willing and able to travel to the centres but are not permitted to. They could swap with the group 5s who want to wait for the GP. Group 6 aren't sat waiting at death's door, the group contains younger people with medical conditions that normally allow them to live full and active lives, people with asthma, diabetes etc work full time, play sports, drive cars, have families etc, but stats have shown they have conditions that make them particularly vulnerable to Covid. They can easily get to the mass centres but the current Group 6 procedure doesn't allow that.

My brother is 36 and would travel anywhere to get his jab. He qualifies but the GP has said he doesn't but if anything changes they will notify him.

It's all being going so well but this seems to be a monumental cock up.

@lampygirl

Many in group 6 are willing and able to travel to the centres but are not permitted to. They could swap with the group 5s who want to wait for the GP. Group 6 aren't sat waiting at death's door, the group contains younger people with medical conditions that normally allow them to live full and active lives, people with asthma, diabetes etc work full time, play sports, drive cars, have families etc, but stats have shown they have conditions that make them particularly vulnerable to Covid. They can easily get to the mass centres but the current Group 6 procedure doesn't allow that.

I agree with you, would seem best and quickest for everyone eligible to be able to access either. I guess the only issue is that GPs could only share details of who is in group 6 if those people have opted in to data sharing within the NHS. The current groups being done at large centres have been identified from other data than health records which are strictly controlled. If you have the nhs app you can opt in on that without any contact with your GP, and it would actually be really helpful to get people to do this if they haven’t as it means all treating you within the NHS can access your records if they are treating you. So it’s not necessarily a barrier but would take some messaging and resource to get done.

This reminds me of the thread where the question was would you take a nighttime jab appointment if centres were running 24 hours.

It was astounding the number of posters who were of the “why should I?” belligerent persuasion. (Again, excepting health/mobility issues.) in real life I don’t know anyone who wouldn’t crawl 30 miles through a pit of snakes at 3am to get the vaccine. There was even one poster who persistently claimed they couldn’t get the vaccine as they were so indispensable at work - if they were that vital surely their boss would have been carrying the poster to the vaccination centre on their shoulders...

I understand that the Group 6 lists have been much more difficult to manage and need GP input. I agree that lots of Group 6 would have been ready and able to travel to mass sites if they had the option. But they don't.

It seems no-one is entirely pleased. Some of Group 5 and 7 would prefer local. Some of Group 6 still haven't been done whilst the mass centres are vaccinating Group 7 below them.

In the end though, the key is to get through people quickly and they have created a system with 2 routes and types of centre - national booking system online mostly to mass vaccine centres, plus GP led services to local hubs. In the end,middle fences amount to a few days or weeks, not much more for most. It is minor inconvenience for the majority now to travel further and for people to wait the few more days that the parallel streams result in for some people.

As they move down the ages, the 2 systems will converge. Once Group 6 are done, the GP hubs will be available for all based on age if they keep running. Perhaps they will or perhaps the intention is for the mass centres to up capacity (and new ones are still opening too) to cover everyone.

A lot if this is about Comms and being clear. People can't necessarily expect to be vaccinated within 10 mins of where they live. Some people suggest both groups 5 and 6 should be able to choose location, but Group 6 had been given to GP hubs for a reason, in the same way the CEV were mostly done at those too. At the moment the system doesn't seem to be able to mange or want to manage lots of overlaps especially amongst Group 6, which does mean those in Group 5 and 7 can't all go local. For the vast vast majority it's not a problem.

The complaint that Group 6 are delaying Group 5 is rather odd as the 2 groups are running concurrently and in tandem and not as an order of priority thing. Likewise, in most areas where Group 5 is finished, Group 7 is now running concurrently with Group 6 and Group 8 may well do too. Is it wrong that some Group 7 and 8 get it before all of Group 6? It's just logistics and the fact Group 6 is as big as groups 5,7 and 8 combined.

The fastest way to get the vaccine will generally to be to go where you're offered it first....for age groups, that's mostly to mass centres via the national booking site. And as the government mentions, people are encouraged to respond quickly to their invitation and go.

Irma, yes I agree. It's kind of odd that so many people are desperate to be vaccinated and there have been reports of people saying they would drive 300 miles to get one if they could (not that that's possible) whilst at the same time, people who have been offered it get a bit cross about the fact it's not their nearest GP hub and are prepared to wait a further couple of weeks so they don't need to drive their car or go on a bus, who aren't clinically vulnerable nor over 70 and what we might call elderly.

Just shows how people are different. And just shows too how lots of people like and live a very very localised life and don't like the Unknown. There will be people (hopefully not many at all) who will have caught Covid and possibly later die in the window between offered a vaccination appointment and waiting for it at a more local venue. It would hopefully be hardly any but it won't be zero.

I’ve not read the whole thread but just to say I’m group 6 and had the jab on Thursday and only got the text the day before. So although it’s stressful now, you will hopefully get called up very soon and it should then happen really quickly.

I'm a carer for my husband and I had my vaccine on Friday - the Pfizer one. I got a text last Monday telling me I was getting the vaccine locally (I could have walked but I didn't) and it was amazingly well organised. Those people on here saying it's chaotic want to go off and try living in the EU - then they'd know what chaotic is, and how you don't get a vaccine unless you work in Brussels for the EU - they've done all their workers somehow, despite the vulnerable not having all been looked after. Be happy with what you've got - the best roll out of vaccines in the world!
I'm sick of people moaning about the vaccine roll out.

Hear hear. Where my relatives live the updated vaccine list is pinned up in the town square

Can you imagine the utter outrage on MN if you had to walk into town to see if your name was on the list?!

My GP is in a consortium with other GPs in our area. The vaccinations are not carried out at my own surgery but at a surgery 18 miles away. My local mass vaccination centre is actually closer. I’m not complaining and I can’t see why other people are complainting about having to travel to a mass vaccination centre. Most people know someone who would give them a lift if they don’t drive themselves and there are lots of community volunteers out there.

My advice is to telephone any vaccination place that is being run by the Pharmacy 2U group when they are open. They apparently have a reserve list. The list is used to account for missed appointments etc. You would have to be prepared to go straight away if they rang you.

i should imagine there are those who are not due their vaccines but have had at least one, someone I know has had her first one, she is early forties, no real health conditions and not even english, no english passport, who knows why , or how , she got to have her vaccine, I guess theres always ways and means