So much for ‘protect the NHS’

[littlelionboss]

This is a ranty post & I apologise.

I’m really starting to get pissed off with the vaccine situation.

My area are now onto vaccinating the over 40’s!!!

I’ve got family & friends that have been called for theirs... fit, healthy, no underlying health conditions.

I’m early 30’s two health conditions and I’m in group 6 for the vaccine.

I can’t book online and when I’ve spoken to my GP (today) they’ve just said I will have to wait for them to contact me.

My sister in law has been given hers on the basis that she’s a carer.
She “cares” for her husband who has a bad back.
A back so bad that over the summer he’s completely transformed his back garden, alone!

It just really doesn’t seem fair at all.

I have a small child and I’m a single parent, surely I should be vaccinated as a carer?!

I know we are all entitled to the vaccine, but hasn’t the point all along beeb to protect the NHS?!

How are we protecting them by jumping ahead to the fit and healthy and leaving the vulnerable ones behind?!

www.google.gr/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/24/their-lives-are-not-valued-families-on-exclusion-of-those-with-learning-disabilities-for-covid-jab

@Botanicals

It ‘turns my stomach’ that a vulnerable person with severe learning disabilities who can’t defend themselves or assert themselves has been seemingly forgotten while my marathon running gym bunny friends have got the vaccination.

How do you know that they have been forgotten though? How do you know that its not just a case of waiting a couple more days or weeks?

Part of the problem is language. I'm not surprised that a single parent of a young child thinks they should be considered a carer.

We don't have any other word differentiating carer from 'carer'. I had a problem with lack of descriptive terms when my son was admitted to ED and I said I needed to accompany him dispute Covid restrictions as I was his carer. Eventually the nurse clicked and was all apologetic as they didn't realise I was his 'carer'.

As a 'carer' I have had my first vaccination but the clinically vulnerable person I am carer to has not been invited. I have far more of a problem with that.

The tories don't want to 'save the NHS'. They want to privatise it, which is already happening slowly so we don't suspect.

It depends on how fast an individual GP or centre is getting through people. It seems to be varying a lot.

No-one is deliberately queue jumping.

@littlelionboss Think of it as a good sign. If that GP has already got on to those, it means that as a nation we're getting through it quite quickly.

I have well-controlled asthma and had my first jab on Wednesday. I'm sure you'll get yours soon. xxx

YANBU OP.
The vaccination system is a bit of a mess at the moment. I think they did well on the initial roll out but it now seems to be a bit of a postcode lottery, plus some conditions are not automatically included for group 6 which is putting pressure on GPs as people need to contact them to ask to be included in group 6 rather than it being automatic.
I've got ME/CFS and thought I would automatically be included in group 6 - but I am not, so have had to write to my GP and follow up with phone calls, I don't have a decision as yet.

Same happened for people with learning disabilities and is happening for some people with asthma, it's bonkers.
I was pretty happy to wait it out as I am working from home so can minimise my risks, but now schools are re-opening which obviously increases risk.

I don't know why the government can't leave school re-opening until all group 6 and all over 50s are vaccinated before re-opening schools tbh - we're talking about 3 weeks worth of education effectively (plus easter holidays) - by then so many more people would be vaccinated, levels would be lower too, and it would feel safer.
I also think they should vaccinate school staff - apparently this would delay others by 2 days - I would be ok with waiting 2 more days for the school staff to get theirs too.
Meanwhile I know healthy under 50s in other areas that have been vaccinated via the NHS system, also council staff and NHS workers who are working at home who have had their vaccines through their employers. I don't begrudge anyone a vaccine, I would advise anyone who is offered one to take it as soon as they can, but the system is feeling unfair, and anxiety is increasing due to schools re-opening very soon - Boris Johnson has recognised that this will lead to an increase in levels - so I think everyone is feeling the pressure now. Unfortunately it's putting pressure on our local services who are carrying this out too, if they change the systems to make it fairer this might help them too (I hope).
Really hope you get vaccinated soon OP

Tbh honest the only reason I was vaccinated was because I receive CA and the DWP has shared data.

Now they need to share data of those in receipt of DLA or PIP so they can be prioritised.

People with severe learning disabilities are now being prioritised which is brilliant news,whoever mentioned vaccine centres being half empty and vaccines going to waste ,is that actually happening ?I know some people have been vaccinated as they are on standby in case people called don't turn up,when I had my vaccine last week the centre certainly wasnt empty ,and it was organized really well like a millitry operation

The point is that general policy (oldest first) with CEV and group 6 prioritised, does not translate to absolute fairness. Some illnesses are trumping others, as they are deemed more at risk. It does not mean that Sue, who is 29 and has borderline diabetes 2 is more at risk than Ann who is 49 and had a successful cancer treatment 3 years ago, nor does it mean that Sue is less healthy than Ann.

In the broad sweep policy, Sue will be treated first. In real life Ann is more vulnerable.

Ann can jump up and down all she likes saying it’s not fair! However, do people really expect the government to line up the 64m people in the UK in order of absolute risk - really?

It’s quite simple, age is the main priority and some people are being seen to out of age order, in specific GP hubs, due to specific illnesses being particularly badly hit by Corvid.

It isn’t about being fair to Sue and Ann, it is about getting everyone vaccinated ASAP, in an order that is reasonable. Reasonable for mass vaccination - not individuals.

I've got ME/CFS and thought I would automatically be included in group 6

@catsarecute You're not because it doesn't put you at increased risk of Coronavirus in and of itself, thankfully.

happening for some people with asthma

Not all asthma is equal. I have asthma, but acknowledge my currently well-controlled asthma (group 6) isn't the same as someone who's been in hospital recently or constantly struggles with severe asthma (group 4.) My asthma has been that bad years ago, but isn't currently.

I think people are being a bit selfish about it to be honest. I know there are people who like to do an organ recital of how ill they are, and would want the jab early as proof they're the 'most illest,' but people are usually being called in the order they should be called in.

All seems to be going ok and we should be glad of that.

@Shelovesamystery for some reason my GP did not have her flagged as group six, that’s how I know. She is vulnerable and meant to be prioritised above people in their early fifties without underlying health conditions.

It is not just my relative that has been left behind, Jo Whiley has been publicising this too. It really depends on how efficient your GP practice is.

‘Just a couple more weeks’ did not help Jo Whiley’s sister.

@KeepOnKeepingOnAgainandAgain

Tbh honest the only reason I was vaccinated was because I receive CA and the DWP has shared data.

Now they need to share data of those in receipt of DLA or PIP so they can be prioritised.

Yes, this!

No it won’t go to waste as the Astra Zeneca vaccine can just sit in the fridge if the vial hasn’t been opened. I think some people have got the wrong idea about the prioritisation. The goal is to go as quickly as possible. So we want to do as many people as possible each day at the vaccination centres. The vaccine won’t go to waste but the appointment time will. The JCVI recommendations are not meant to be some strict hierarchical order of worthiness. There are unlimited vaccines, just get as many done as possible. If more healthy 40 year old are immunised that’s less chance of you catching it. It is was important to get the most vulnerable done first. Now it’s a question of speed. If people are in groups 5-9 all the better but if people don’t turn up to appointments (which unfortunately happens too regularly) we just need to fill to capacity and do as many people as possible. If we were short of supplies it would be different.

It does not mean that Sue, who is 29 and has borderline diabetes 2 is more at risk than Ann who is 49 and had a successful cancer treatment 3 years ago, nor does it mean that Sue is less healthy than Ann. In the broad sweep policy, Sue will be treated first. In real life Ann is more vulnerable.

@Witchlight I don't think we can say that though as Sue has diabetes which is a risk factor and Ann doesn't currently have any risk factors.

I suppose people have to think that this is a particular disease with particular risk factors for it, which we now know and can identify.

It doesn't mean that people with other conditions aren't ill or anything like that, but they blessedly don't have any risk factors for being hit hard by this particular illness.

I'm group 6 and booked mine online in my area. Have to travel to next county to get jab next week.

I'm a carer for a disabled child and am the same vaccine group (6) as my dh who has a health condition which also puts him group 6.

I've had a letter today to enable me to book an appointment at a vaccine centre which I have done with no problem but DH who is the same group cannot book one as he is not over 65.

There's no point in complaining though as despite lots of grounds for criticism of the government for other aspects of covid management the Government is doing it's best to roll out a vaccine programme at break neck speed. There are bound to be some anomalies but overall they really are doing a fantastic job given the time they have had to set up and administer the programme.

Individual risk factors are not the issue.

I have no risk factors but I am a carer. I receive CA, DWP shared data so I was vaccinated.

We can bypass the NHS/GP determining individual risk factors if the DWP share data of those receiving DLA or PIP.

Then we can avoid the issues that Jo Wiley raised. GPs don't have to determine mild, moderate, severe or profound LDs or determine risk. The whole group can be prioritised. If they can do it for carers, why not those cared for? You can only claim CA if the cared for already qualify.

@SoulofanAggron

You might not think that having ME/CFS in and of itself puts me at increased risk, but can I point out info from the ME Association that suggests otherwise? I think we should be in group 6 along with other clinically vulnerable.

"New infections are probably the commonest cause of exacerbation or relapse of ME/CFS – as noted in section 3.3.2 of the Chief Medical Officer’s Working Group Report on ME/CFS: meassociation.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/CMO-Report-2002.pdf

This is also noted in section 1.6.4 of the new (draft) NICE clinical guideline on ME/CFS which will become operational in April 2021: www.nice.org.uk/guidance/gid-ng10091/documents/draft-guideline

Chu et al (2019) in an epidemiological study examining outcomes in ME/CFS reported that infections are the most common factor for having a deleterious impact on the course of the condition: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6370741/

Patient evidence to the MEA also indicates that almost everyone with ME/CFS who has caught COVID-19 has had a significant and/or prolonged relapse of ME/CFS. This is not surprising given the considerable degree of clinical overlap between ME/CFS and Long Covid.

The MEA has now received information from Dr David Hefin, Member of the Welsh National Assembly for Caerphilly, that the Aneurin Bevan University Health Board has accepted people with ME/CFS into Group 6 of the JCVI priority list. Other health authorities in Wales have also been contacted."

They are going really fast. I am group 4 and was done three weeks ago, and they are now finishing up group 6 round here. The going was slow at first due to the volume of elderly in my area, but then it took off.

As pp said, it can’t be a top trumps of ailments; this is a public health battle plan, not a personal health one.

@catsarecute - no health professional has the time to read all that malarkey in order to bump you up the list. Just wait your turn - it will come soon enough.

I understand how frustrating it is waiting. The difficulty is we only get confirmation of availability a week in advance. Some people are not very truthful sadly when booking and this leads to centres having to double check bookings and cancel some and be very strict checking eligibility. It’s frustrating but the sooner we can get through the designated priority group the sooner we can move down the list. I’ve seen people on here advise others to lie about being a carer - please don’t it causes all sorts of problems and it’s not nice turning people away

I can see how its frustrating. I have had my 1st jab now as a carer and yet the person im a carer for isnt entitled to the vaccine yet due to age. I also feel bad for teachers etc who havent been able to be vaccinated yet, but utlimately if you get called and get the chance to have the vaccination theyd be mad not to. We all need doing, and the more people that are vaccinated the safer everyone is.

@IrmaFayLear - I agree and they shouldn't need to. I think that's what I am saying really. Obviously I will wait my turn, however I still think JVCI should put CFS/ME in group 6. I was making a general point in response to the OP's comment but I got picked up on saying I am at no more risk which I don't feel is true so was just pointing that out in response to that particular comment. In my original comment I was saying I think the system needs to change to prioritise generally - I wasn't trying to make it all about my particular situation but using it as an example. Anxiety levels are high for lots of people now schools are returning.

Actually it’s the other way around. GPs are the one that are skipping forward in the groups, mass vaccination centres have been strictly told they are not allowed to

That's not right. I am in group 7 and have been able to book at a mass vaccination centre. My husband is group 5 and he had his vaccination via the gp two weeks ago. My understanding is that 60-64 year olds will be booked into the mass vaccination centres if they have the capacity. Maybe it depends on the area.

Fuckssake just wait to be called. My daughter is in Canada and they've barely started. She thinks it'll be late autumn before she will be vaccinated. Whoever is in charge of organising the vaccination programme deserves a bloody medal,