Tests and Masks not Compulsory, apparently.

[Radio4Rocks]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/25/covid-tests-masks-not-compulsory-english-schools-nick-gibb?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR0o_Hr0gXp7m3QB6NHQcfBd3NI40hRbIOgrMfAG4eVFvWsKA_-nUTdYBso

So what's the point of organising them in the first place?

Also who are we protecting now that the top four groups are vaccinated?

My children are wearing masks despite negative tests (and both parents fully vaccinated) to protect the vulnerable (who are all vaccinated) from the risk of a virus with a very very high survival rate, yes?

What’s the data on this? We literally have no peer reviewed data because we’ve never been in this position.

It’s simply to appease.

@Radio4Rocks

It shouldn't be a choice.

If you want your DCs in school provide them with masks and test them. Or home school them.

SEN schools excepted, of course.

But it is a choice. Nothing is mandatory, it's up to individual parents choice. Please do not pick out only SEN kids, what about all kids. We should not be masking or invasive swabbing our children. If you believe in masking your kids for hours a day, shoving a nasal swap up there nose so be it, i if I refuse to subject my kids to your demands, them my choice counts also.

if I refuse to subject my kids to your demands, them my choice counts also.

I'd argue that your children should be homeschooled then right now.

I agree with testing.

I cannot see the reasons for the masks.

There us no data at all to support the theory that children need to wear masks now that the vulnerable are vaccinated.

Who are they protecting? How many deaths will occur if children don’t wear masks?

Would somebody like to start the ball rolling on working this out?

@Malteser71

Still nobody can answer my question.

If children. Have to test negative to go to school, why ask them to wear a mask?

Because the lateral flow tests are only around 76% effective in detecting positive cases. fullfact.org/health/lateral-flow-test/

Yes I know that. In fact I think the figure is lower.

They often don’t pick up positive cases where there is low viral load - those much less infectious cases.

@Worknoplay

I am support staff in a secondary school, and I have worked at school throughout the pandemic (and currently self isolating at home!!), I can say that some families are anti-masks and anti-tests (and anti-vaccine) and will find every little excuse in the book to make sure their child doesn't wear a mask or doesn't do the test.

For example, my son has acne so he can't wear a mask. They will argue with the school on and on and on about it. The child will follow their parent's example and argue on and on about it. THe tests is uncomfortable and makes my child gag. THerefore he won't do the test. We hear it all the time.

It's amazing that people are so naive and think that kids who don't wear masks all have a good reason not to wear one. It's just like adults. England is full of little Laurence Fox, pretending to have an illness in order to get out of obeying the rules.

It also amazing how many parents will stand up for their kids, to not be masked, to not have invasive tests done. You call those parents naive who wish minimal harm on kids? You do what you think is best for your kids and I will do the best by mine. Do not call out those who do not submit to your fear led propaganda. We all have choice.

To be fair, most kids would not be bothered by what is a minimally invasive test.

dH and I test twice a week because we are nHS. Our children were concerned but fine once they saw us do it with no fuss.

Testing is the right thing to do.

But...the masks!

@hatchershaze Please learn to use Google scholar
scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=coronavirus+presymptomatic++spread&btnG= The term you were looking for is presymptomatic spread.

@Barbie222

if I refuse to subject my kids to your demands, them my choice counts also.

I'd argue that your children should be homeschooled then right now.

It goes both ways. I don't believe in child abuse/ Munchausen by proxy, we all get a choice.

Because if they were compulsory we'd have a situation where the most vulnerable (generally, not to covid) students were being repeatedly excluded for not having or refusing to wear masks.

No child is to be refused education for the lack of a mask. This is a good thing, although the insular thinking this crisis has brought about will mean some disagree.

Most people wearing masks and having tests will offer huge protections, in the same way that most people having vaccinations will.

Most people wearing masks and having tests will offer huge protections

Yes, that’s true, but how many teenagers do we think will go along with these once they twig that many of their peers are not, with no consequences?

(See also: school uniform.)

[quote MrsPernicious]@hatchershaze Please learn to use Google scholar
scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=coronavirus+presymptomatic++spread&btnG= The term you were looking for is presymptomatic spread.[/quote]
Thank you for pointing me at a page that is blank. Please also learn to use copy and paste. Pre- symptomatic is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about young children who are at minimal risk, to catch or spread. The recommendations for texting and mask wearing of our young children is Asymptomatic spread. Ie go to the doctor and say I am ill with a deadly disease, Doctor says 'what are your symptoms' you say none, your doctor would then put on your notes 'hypochondriac'

You do what you think is best for your kids and I will do the best by mine.
This is where some of the real difficulty lies. Those whose parents lack enough education to understand basic risk management will be the ones left more exposed. Those kids who won't be turning up in masks are often going to be the ones most in need of proper education in school. I hope the schools will have funding to give masks to kids who want them but the parents won't provide them.

Lol I think high school is the perfect time to learn adults (or nearly adults) do what is customary rather than only what is legally enforceable. It is our primary school’s policy that parents wear masks when dropping off and collecting children. It is not legally enforceable, as we are outside at all times. I have not seen a parent not wearing a mask. If you want to bring your child up to refuse this sort of thing then good luck to you

@HipTightOnions

Most people wearing masks and having tests will offer huge protections

Yes, that’s true, but how many teenagers do we think will go along with these once they twig that many of their peers are not, with no consequences?

Ok we'll just keep schools closed then shall we?

I think you'll be surprised. I'm working in a unit for challenging children, they've been in as vulnerable and almost all are complying, even though they are generally have challenging behaviour.

It works both ways and IME, it's more likely that the fact that most are wearing them will influence those who aren't, than that the few will influence the many. Plus, have more faith in our young people.

@HipTightOnions

I can’t see why children who have been tested and allowed into school then require a mask

Because the tests are a bit shit?

The masks are too. It's a virus and virus's are going to do what they do, warmer weather is coming, cases will flatline, just like the Flu? 🤔 This was a particularly horrible Flu type virus, but 2019 was a very soft year for Flu.

There are plenty of parents with underlying conditions who will not have been vaccinated when schools go back.

Who might die if they catch covid off their kids.

The least we can do as a society is to protect those kids from bereavement and parents from death and honestly wearing a mask for a limited time (until those parents are vaccinated) seems not that much of a sacrifice in order to save those deaths and those children being bereaved.

Anyone can have an undiagnosed condition too, there will be many in the parent age group who this applies to, it's not a mild illness for all.

It would be different if the parents and teachers had been vaccinated, but they haven't been.

@IloveJKRowling

There are plenty of parents with underlying conditions who will not have been vaccinated when schools go back.

Who might die if they catch covid off their kids.

The least we can do as a society is to protect those kids from bereavement and parents from death and honestly wearing a mask for a limited time (until those parents are vaccinated) seems not that much of a sacrifice in order to save those deaths and those children being bereaved.

Anyone can have an undiagnosed condition too, there will be many in the parent age group who this applies to, it's not a mild illness for all.

It would be different if the parents and teachers had been vaccinated, but they haven't been.

Have you read what you wrote back to yourself?

Please stop the ridiculous fear momngering. Who exactly do you know under the age of 80 who has died? Its the Flu rebranded, sadly people have died, my grandmother also, who was 97 with dementia, renal failure but put as a Covid death. If you want to give me statistics please back them up with evidence, I will then take a good look. If not stop the rubbish talk. Kids do not need face masks because a) Asymptomatic is not a thing, b) children are not super spreaders, c) the tests are not reliable, d) it's a massive PR campaign to get you to have a jab (not a vaccine) and to sign up to the mass digital passport.
If you can't see this then shame on you, because your children are next. You want this dystopian future for them?

I personally think wearing masks for a limited time is worth it to reduce the number of kids catching coronavirus and going through this, before you even get to the impact on adult infection rates, morbidity and mortality. Masks, along with other measures, work.

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-children-hospitals-intensive-care-pims-b1796419.html

I don't understand why everyone is so precious about it in this country.

Guidebutton
Thank you!! So sick of this narrative around teenagers because a few have been caught partying. The vast vast majority of decent human beings who care very much about their friends, teachers and family. Due to my job, I regularly meet with large numbers of secondary HT and all report that teenagers on the whole have been absolutely fantastic .... hand washing and wear masks and trying their best with SD. The way decent society works is that most people will support the collective and that’s been proven as most people are hand washing, wear masks, testing etc. There will always be that group (thankfully small minority) be it anti-vaccine or don’t wear seat belts or anti- mask or the brigade of smokers who insist they should be allowed to smoke anywhere but that’s just life. Fortunately most people have enough altruism in them to make the difference and do what’s best for others so that group can ride safely off the back of others While claiming they know best 🤷‍♀️ They are too small a group to count. Most will do the right thing.

It's ridiculous to say no-one under the age of 80 has died it's demonstrably untrue.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/inspirational-teacher-42-no-underlying-19677724

There are too many examples.

The thing is, there's a difference between deaths where we say, as a society, 'we did all we reasonably could to prevent it' and deaths where actually, masks in schools might have prevented it but we didn't bother, with really no reason other than we just didn't care enough.

And I agree we should have greater faith in our kids and stop treating them as if they're so inferior to all the kids worldwide who manage to wear masks without any problems at all.

I know a six year old who's worn one since August in school with no problems - he's proud to do so because he knows he's doing his bit to help the wider community (he's in a US state - one where they didn't need any more lockdowns after their first one because they kept rates low, so he's had consistent schooling throughout).

@Radio4Rocks

It shouldn't be a choice.

If you want your DCs in school provide them with masks and test them. Or home school them.

SEN schools excepted, of course.

So because my children are in mainstream school but have SEN and may struggle with either masks or constant testing they can't access their rightful education? Damn good job it isn't up to you isn't it.