Is anyone planning on refusing to allow their children to have the lateral flow tests.

[Witchcraftandhokum]

I'm really not looking to start a bunfight. Just tying to better understand the reasons if you are not planning on allowing your child to be tested.

At the moment my personal opinion is that it's an expensive waste of time that may cause more problems than not.

And your alternative would be? Or shall we just keep schools closed?

I note that BMJ article doesn’t have an answer to that either.

[quote rwalker]@PracticingPerson
The bahviourql science suggests all 20 would be in school not knowing either way and therefore take fewer risks.

Christ how naive they are .[/quote]
This is the problem. People who have spent a whole career studying this stuff are dismissed out of hand.

Why do random individuals think they know better than those who have studied something in detail for thirty years?

It is this anti-expert cynical English approach that has led to our terrible covid outcomes.

I think it's sunk cost fallacy. The government has spent a billion on these not very helpful tests and wants to make use of them so it isn't seen to have wasted money.

This is widely acknowledged across Westminster. They must use them now. Companies are turning them down.

Nope. I would open schools with the other precautions in place and change the rules so that any child with new symptoms of illness was encouraged to get a pcr test. Many children just have sore throat or headache or stomach upsets.

Sorry my last comment was for WandaMakesToast.

I'm so confused with the different types now. Is this the same as an antigen test? If so my DD wouldn't cope. She's a very anxious child. We're not in the U.K., but I know we won't be able to travel until the need for testing is over because she's so stressed about it. I don't know if they're particularly rough in our area, but everyone I know who has had the test has found it quite painful. My boss's eyes were streaming for half an hour afterwards and one side of her nose was bleeding. I think most kids would be a bit traumatised after that experience, so it's a hard no from me.

Everyone I know who works in a school need to have it done at least once a week.

I work in a school and I don't need to have it done - it is completely optional. I am not refused access to my place of work on the basis of consent. The students are exactly the same.

@SpringHasSprung12

Nope. I would open schools with the other precautions in place and change the rules so that any child with new symptoms of illness was encouraged to get a pcr test. Many children just have sore throat or headache or stomach upsets.

Spring - Judging by the amount of parents refusing Lateral flow tests because it is ‘invasive’, and face masks because they are ‘unhealthy’, how likely is it do you think that people will take their children for a PCR test with only mild symptoms? Children get headaches and stomach aches all the time. Parents will not take them for a PCR for every minor ailment.

The advantage of the Lateral flow tests is that they are quick, easy and can be done in school without requiring a parent to take time off work / need a car etc.
Also what about those who have no symptoms at all?

expatinspain yes it’s an antigen test but definitely not that painful. Our school has tested hundreds of children already and they’ve been fine. I’ve had it done a few times and did not have any issues.

@Wandamakestoast I think most of the spread comes from people with at least some symptoms.

It's surprisingly hard to quantify. But this study

www.imperial.ac.uk/news/209673/covid-19-spread-different-social-settings-imperial/

Shows four times more spread from symptomatic individuals. Kind of makes sense.

Anyway I think we would get much better results at reducing spread in schools using pcr testing of unwell children than asymptomatic screening. Especially because so many children get symptoms not in the current list.

We could have a pr campaign to get children tested. The current situation is that parents actually need to lie to get a test for sore throat etc which isn't encouraging.

After the initial period the lft testing will take place at home anyway and rely on parents. I think they are particularly unreliable when self administered.

[quote Icequeen01]@HermioneGrangersHair I tried our current sanitary disposal company but they said they had no capacity either. We are an independent special school so not sure if our LA will be interested especially as only a couple of our children are from our local LA the rest come from other LA's but I will give them a call. [/quote]
Worth a try @Icequeen01

The LAs should be working for all educational settings in the county as part of the Covid resilience response. All LAs have had cash for this from central government. We in our LA are giving all our advice and policies and risk assessments etc to all our maintained schools, academies and independent schools. That’s applies to all the Covid information, from all teams so definitely worth a try. You have children who are at risk and I assume some CEV so they should be helping you. Try your local civil contingencies unit too, who should be running a local resilience forum.

@Sleepthief can't or won't makes no difference to me. I won't apologise for wanting my family to be as safe as they can be, if that's discriminatory then surely every parent is? My husband and I both have tests every week, it's not pleasant but not painful, we do it to protect our vulnerable patients so I'm sorry, if you can't or won't then you'll be better off at home until we're all vaccinated as much as those that don't have health complications can be

Wandamakestoast Maybe the Spanish nurses push it further up or something. I know five people who've had that test and they've all said the same. Unfortunately to travel that's the place in my local area where we'd have to have the test 😕

[quote Tessabelle74]@Sleepthief can't or won't makes no difference to me. I won't apologise for wanting my family to be as safe as they can be, if that's discriminatory then surely every parent is? My husband and I both have tests every week, it's not pleasant but not painful, we do it to protect our vulnerable patients so I'm sorry, if you can't or won't then you'll be better off at home until we're all vaccinated as much as those that don't have health complications can be[/quote]
Whilst this may be your view, you have to live in the country as it is.

Legally, currently, tests are not compulsory for pupils.

I'm having to send my children into school with children who are having sleepovers and parties etc.

There's nothing any of us can do to change the pool our children are in.

Another school volunteer here - the lateral flow tests we use are the same process as the pcr tests in terms of getting the sample (3-5 swabs on each tonsil/tonsil area and 10 seconds gentle swabbing in one nostril) it is only the process after the swabbing that differs from the pcr test.

The school I'm at has an above-average number of both SEN and physically disabled students, many of whom have been in school and testing twice-weekly for several weeks now. The students with have been well supported and we have been amazed at how quickly they have managed and got used to the process. That said no one has ever been forced to take a test, just encouraged to try.

We have had a handful of positive results out of thousands of tests (all asymptomatic) and none false to my knowledge. I (and all the other volunteers at the school I'm at) treat each student with the kindness, patience and respect that I would expect my own children to receive and that won't change even with the volume of tests we are performing over the next fortnight. If I can give one piece of advice it would be prior to testing help your children to locate their tonsils in a mirror

I'm very torn on this. I really want my kids back in school. Their education, their mental health and their mother's sanity are all suffering from being locked down, but...this virus has not gone away and I'm massively skeptical of this Government motivation and processes.

I feel that rushing children back to school is a political decision being made against scientific advise, and that mass testing is a salve to give an illusion of safety and make us all feel better that something is 'being done'.

From the BMJ "The quality and processing of the specimen are determined to a large extent by who carries out the tests. Public Health England’s evaluation of the Innova test showed that its sensitivity was 79.2% when used by trained laboratory scientists, 73% when used by trained healthcare staff, but only 57.5% when used by track and trace centre staff employed by the pharmacy chain Boots"

So it may pick up some positive cases, but if potentially over 40% are being missed, what's point of doing it at all....other than to justify using the millions of tests being stockpiled in warehouses, bought at vast expense from the public purse.

@Tessabelle74 no, despite wanting the best for all my children, I wouldn't trample over the rights of a disabled person and don't know many people who would. But anyway, as @PracticingPerson says, the tests are not compulsory, so I guess you'll just have to suck it up 🤷‍♀️

That said no one has ever been forced to take a test, just encouraged to try.

Exactly. I'm stunned at the number of posters here who just say 'my DC says they don't want it so that's that'

In almost every new experience in life, we encourage our kids to give things a go. No-one's suggesting holding a kid down and forcing them to take the test. But encouragement and pointing out the social responsibility and empathy for others (not to mention the fact that we all want to get back to normal asap and the more we did to facilitate that, the quicker it will happen) is surely the parents' role here?

@BloominElk I think the children and parents will do the tests themselves so the numbers will be worse than you are suggesting.

I do feel that I've been a bit gloomy on this thread though. Maybe it will work better than I expect. I have been cheered up by the thought pointed out to me on this thread that after the initial period they will move back to pcr confirmation and that should reduce the chaos from false positives.

Calling sceptical parents selfish though is wrong. There is plenty of skepticism from screening experts about the benefits of this. It's a perfectly reasonable opinion not agree with this screening program.

We shouldn't stop being able to discuss critically just because it's covid related.

There is encouraging children and then there is also respecting their decision.

Mine know what the test is, know what it is about. Have seen it done on my youngest ds when school insisted he had a test for his asthma cough.
I'm not going to pressure my children. I'm not going to have anyone else pressure them either. This guilt tripping claiming that in order to have empathy you must do this test for the greater good is going a bit too far when they're not very reliable tests to begin with.

@BloominElk

I'm very torn on this. I really want my kids back in school. Their education, their mental health and their mother's sanity are all suffering from being locked down, but...this virus has not gone away and I'm massively skeptical of this Government motivation and processes.

I feel that rushing children back to school is a political decision being made against scientific advise, and that mass testing is a salve to give an illusion of safety and make us all feel better that something is 'being done'.

From the BMJ "The quality and processing of the specimen are determined to a large extent by who carries out the tests. Public Health England’s evaluation of the Innova test showed that its sensitivity was 79.2% when used by trained laboratory scientists, 73% when used by trained healthcare staff, but only 57.5% when used by track and trace centre staff employed by the pharmacy chain Boots"

So it may pick up some positive cases, but if potentially over 40% are being missed, what's point of doing it at all....other than to justify using the millions of tests being stockpiled in warehouses, bought at vast expense from the public purse.

Well said.

The government is already preparing the grounds to blame the public for the inevitable failure. They will say it is the parents and the children to blame for not wearing masks and not taking tests, although for me it is absolutely clear that neither would make much difference against the airborne virus allowed to circulate among hundreds of people for hours.

We will end up with new variants of the virus that spread faster and may be stronger then the existing vaccines. And we need to thank our reckless and stupid government for that.

Just wondering is this it yet another preemptive government measure to fully reopen schools only to shortly u turn (again) and close schools because of cases due to lack of optional take up of masks and testing in school and at home?

Based on the last minute next day u turn at the start of this year - it is anyone's guess as to limits of incompetency possibilities!

Seemingly some parents just will not do (or be told) the minimum to bring in a marginal layer of extra health safety such as hand, face, space and trace. Don't wear a mask don't test don't care brigade full of self entitlement exceptionalism still thinking herd immunity is a scientific possibility etc.

What I mean is do we still have to fight and argue about whether to allow our children to be tested or not, seriously is this really a thing. They need to return to school and if this is the only way, whether you agree with testing, money wasted, BMJ, etc, etc can’t we just see the bigger picture and let them restart their lives? 🙄

fully reopen schools only to shortly u turn (again) and close schools

I doubt it, but all those banging on about how they're not going to make their kid wear a mask or whatever should be mindful that the approach is supposed to be data not dates and the idea that they get to meet their friends again any time soon is supposedly contingent on schools not going batshit covidy like they did last time.

Simply put to keep any over crowded indoor poorly ventilated prolonged face to face setting sustainable while asymptomatic pandemic is not contained (let alone eradicated) - what small easy to do steps could potentially make the difference between sustainable continued safe operation or closing due to excess health and safety risks?

What do people want? Sustainable full opening of in person facilities with simple scientifically proven beneficial risk mitigation measures or stay away isolated and do nothing?