Another foreign travel one. Moral dilemma

[CustardyCreams]

PIL want to us to go on vacation with them to Spain for first two weeks of August. They are offering to pay; we would only need to pay for our expenses and COVID tests. Extremely generous and kind of them, but I feel really torn.

They are 70+ and will be vaccinated. Me and DP are under 50 with young kids. So at most DP and I will have had one vaccination. Kids are too young to wear masks in the airport or plane. I’m debating whether I will have vaccine yet as I’m still breast feeding (MIL disapproves of BF, and would not hesitate to tell me to stop so I can have the vaccine).

If there was even the slightest risk of ending up in hotel quarantine I would not go on the holiday and their money would be wasted, DP agrees. Personally I doubt we’ll be allowed to go anyway so the money would be wasted, I’ve told DP to check they realise flying on hols is unlikely, but it’s their money to waste and they insist everything will be fine.

Should I let them book the holiday even though I’m anxious about them wasting their money and also anxious about travelling? Am I being selfish if I say no? Kids and DP would love the holiday. We can’t afford to book UK holiday ourselves and PIL refused to do a UK Holiday when we suggested it.

(Off topic) How/Why the hell would someone dissaprove of breastfeeding?

To be honest in your situation I wouldn't want to go. I couldn't risk the quarantine with kids for a holiday, as lovely as a holiday might be.

Can't they get refundable bookings (if you're not allowed to travel).

Your DP should be handling this -- his parents.
I would not let bf stop me getting jab & I would not worry about the rest.
But main thing, Your DP should be handling any potential fall out about this -- his parents.

In all likelihood the situation will be different in August. I'd set out to MIL under what circumstances you will and won't be able to travel, for example any quarantine restrictions and you won't be going. Leave it to her to decide if she wants to risk her money. We've just booked flights to Istanbul in September with a fingers crossed attitude.

I would explain to MIL all of this and tell her she can go ahead and book it if she wants, but you’ll only be deciding a couple of weeks in advance. So I’d recommend she books refundable accommodation - I guess flights are still very cheap.

How old are the children? If under 6, they won’t be required to wear a mask, definitely not a breastfed baby.

Do they (and you) realise that masks are compulsory absolutely everywhere in Spain, even when you’re going for a walk or a stroll a the beach, and they can only be taken off when sat down to eat/laying down on your towels/going for a swim? Being vaccinated or not won’t make a difference to this. I did it last summer for 2 weeks in 40 degrees heat and it’s rather uncomfortable. Very much doable and compulsory, just not that enjoyable. If you get your own villa you can of course be in your own garden without them, but anything like a resort or normal hotel will mean you’re wearing them 80% of the day.

You don't sound like you really want to go. So why agree to go? A holiday is supposed to be enjoyable. MIL who disapproves of you breastfeeding and wouldn't hesitate to tell you to stop doesn't sound like someone you're going to enjoy being on holiday with.
Just because they're paying doesn't mean they get to call all the shots - that's controlling. Refused to do a UK hol? As in wouldn't even consider it - in a pandemic? Well I know who I think is selfish - and it isn't you.

I wouldn’t go.
Will the people where you are going have had their jabs, The hotel staff and other guests ?

@DinosaurDiana

I wouldn’t go. Will the people where you are going have had their jabs, The hotel staff and other guests ?

As someone who’s Spanish I can tell you, they won’t be. There will still be a tonne of restrictions though, which I’m guessing MIL will also disapprove of.

The only place we could consider was Israel where everybody had had the jab

I wouldn’t consider anywhere else to be honest and certainly not Europe which is way behind us

Why are you only considering having the jab?
There is no evidence to suggest anything but antibodies transmit in breast milk and the mhra has advised both vaccines be given to bfeeding mothers.
If you are not keen but dh and dc are, let them go without you

Could you possibly suggest booking for next year instead? There will be lots of uncertainties this summer just as there was last and having small children isn't really conducive to just going with the flow regardless of what quarantine/testing/mask wearing/flight cancellation etc are going on at the time.

@TheTeenageYears

Could you possibly suggest booking for next year instead? There will be lots of uncertainties this summer just as there was last and having small children isn't really conducive to just going with the flow regardless of what quarantine/testing/mask wearing/flight cancellation etc are going on at the time.

I agree with this and would be asking DH to suggest booking for next year instead.

It's a very generous offer but whilst the UK will hopefully be back to something resembling normal it's harder to know what position other countries will be in.

Many people will go abroad this summer I'm sure but the uncertainty would put me off - particularly with very young DC.

I'd book for next year. Get DP to suggest a nice UK holiday together this year. Much less hassle. Much safer. The kids will love it. Most places are fully refundable. It will be lovely for you all to spend time together but I wouldn't go overseas this year

@Theredjellybean

Why are you only considering having the jab? There is no evidence to suggest anything but antibodies transmit in breast milk and the mhra has advised both vaccines be given to bfeeding mothers. If you are not keen but dh and dc are, let them go without you

This! BF once you have had the vaccine will give your baby antibodies which it won’t be able to get through a vaccine until one has been approved safe for use with children.

Just wait until the 12th April for the government review to see what the situation is (I highly doubt we won’t be able to travel come the summer) But you don’t sound like you want to go anyway, so why bother?

I would book a UK holiday.
I live in France and the vaccine rollout is so slow.
The daily infection is double the UK now and we have had a curfew for 4 months. Also we’ve not had a restaurant or bar open for 4 months.

£400 on Covid tests would pay for eating out for a week.
A cottage won’t be cheap but at least you can just drive there and take all the dc’s paraphernalia.
Devon, Cornwall or Kent are generally warm and beautiful places to visit in August.
Yes, it may rain but that’s the only worry you’ll have.

It's irresponsible booking a foreign holiday right now. It's partly why we are in this mess in the first place. England alone has the highest rates of covid of anywhere in the whole world.
Say no. Book a UK holiday if you have to or postpone until the following year.
I'd also have the vaccine when offered even in breastfeeding

I live in Spain, in the north, and masks are NOT nice to wear in the heat.

Obviously nobody has a crystal ball but the young almost certainly won't be vaccinated by August which may well mean mask restrictions still in place. The elderly and public service will be, but not hospitality workers. At the moment there is a ban on arrivals from Britain, which hopefully will be lifted by then, but it's in response to the Kent strain.

I would predict that the quarantine requirements will have (hopefully) tapered off by the summer, as when Spain has vaccinated it's more vulnerable then numbers of cases are more likely to be lower, but who knows.

I'd only book a refundable holiday, but I wouldn't worry about the vaccine. If you didn't catch it in the UK, unless you go clubbing you're unlikely to catch it in Spain. Fiestas are cancelled and bars have big spaces between tables and 4 person limits. Transmission here is due to close friends and family gatherings, in schools for example, and workplaces, it isn't being transmitted because of the militant masks, and surgical masks too.

I think you will find things are very very different in 6 months time and in the summer but it sounds like you don’t want to go so I would just say not this year.

I would just say no, it probably wouldn't be that enjoyable for you even without the pandemic in normal times. It sounds like the sort of holiday there has been many a thread on MN about in the past.

Oh - and you don't say how young your DC are but they have to wear masks when 6 and you risk a large on the spot fine if you don't. You'd be temp checked at the entrance to lots of shops or bars and hotels. Masks will have to be worn poolside and on the beach unless in the sea or on your towel. Towels 2m apart from other people etc (going by last summer) and there were young people employed to patrol beaches to check this. So it's quite safe but not necessarily an escape from the shitty year as you'd be surrounded by reminders of it!

With an attitude like your MILs, I wouldn't holiday with them for anything. You will be utterly miserable just being around them, let alone wirh ask the likely restrictions mentioned up thread. No no no no no!

Maybe DP and DC go and you stay here and have a lovely relaxing time at home

Tbh, holiday with the in-laws sounds like it would be fucking miserable anyway

Swerve it. Say you’re not going abroad this year and leave it at that.

Let your in-laws do what they want, but you don’t have to go.

@digitaldays

It's irresponsible booking a foreign holiday right now. It's partly why we are in this mess in the first place. England alone has the highest rates of covid of anywhere in the whole world. Say no. Book a UK holiday if you have to or postpone until the following year. I'd also have the vaccine when offered even in breastfeeding

England does not have the highest rates. Currently France, Spain and Portugal are higher. By the summer everything could have changed and hopefully infection levels will be lower everywhere in Europe like last summer but it is likely that more people will have been vaccinated in the UK than the EU. Your MILs attitude to breast feeding seems strange so I wouldn’t go on holiday with the in laws until you are past that stage. I don’t think the fact your children can’t wear masks will make much difference as to whether they could pick covid up on the journey. I agree with what others have said in that you should wait until the government give further guidance on international travel this summer unless whatever you book can easily be postponed a year if you decide not to travel. We have a ferry crossing to Spain booked and would like to go but don’t have the additional complications of younger children and another household involved. We have not booked accommodation yet as are waiting for more clarity on what rules will be in place. We will be vaccinated but our children won’t.

It sounds a bit risky to me, in terms of money and likely cancellations/quarenteen etc.

On a separate note the Vaccine is no longer contraindicated in breastfeeding women if it’s something you are comfortable with you can have it.

you don't say how young your DC are but they have to wear masks when 6

This is a really good point. As an aside, it's over 5 in Scotland for anyone planning on heading up here!