Employer disadvantaging and threatening staff who haven’t had the vaccine

[MrsFCastle]

My partner works in health and social care. He isn’t an anti vaxxer. Just feels it’s too soon. His employer is furious and is threatening to stop offering shifts if they don’t get it. I’m genuinely concerned about his job security. Can they do this? Helpful replies only please. This isn’t a thread about anti/pro vax.

[Bagamoyo1]

[quote combatbarbie]@TomHardyandMe both my in laws have had the vaccination but neither were given anything to say that they had it.

Vaccinations are personal choice, if he wears the correct PPE in lieu of a vaccine then I can't see how they can terminate his contract. Clearly this hasn't been tested in law yet but I don't think it will be long. I really think this is a non issue, a person who couldn't have the vaccine wouldn't be treated this way. It's direct discrimination. [/quote]
They should have been given a card, and they need to get back in touch with whoever gave the vaccine, to get their cards

[QuestionEverythingOrBeASheep]

@reformedcharacters

Holding off on a new vaccine is not being anti vax

This is just being cautious. Nothing wrong with that. He wants to wait a bit, no problem, he can just have twice weekly tests like all the school children have to.

Check his contract. If it's not new they can't force him, he can offer to take twice weekly tests. Is it zero hours? This may cause a problem. If he's a long time employed with this company he may be told to sign a new contract which includes compulsories.

The legal system say it's a very grey area and without it in the contract he can take legal action against him if they discriminate against him.

Remember many people who can not have the vaccine for health reasons work in the care and medical industry. I can not and I will not be forced by peer pressure to take that risk, not with my family history.

[Motorina]

could you argue that there are no service users who want to be cared for by an unvaccinated carer and so their role is redundant

Service users wouldn't know. Service users aren't given information on the vaccine status of their carers, in the same way they aren't told if anyone involved in their care is HIV+ve, has Hep B, or any other medical condition for that matter. Even as a line-manager I'm unlikely to know - all I know is that the individual has Occupational Health clearance to work.

[JudgeRindersMinder]

@Pastanred

They are allowed to do this for new staff just not existing contracts

I’m guessing overtime is seen as new in this case

Unless they give the appropriate notice in your contract (usually 28 days) to change the contract.

[MorganKitten]

@reformedcharacters

Could he lie? Is proof provided with the vaccine?

Seriously? What an awful reply..

[PinkDaffodil2]

Has he been there at least 2 years? Tread carefully if not as they can dismiss him for anything that’s not a protected characteristic.
As PPs have said, this isn’t tested in case law yet but I’d suggest he contacts his union to see what support they will offer if he holds out.

[SpeakingFranglais]

It was because of an unvaccinated and infected health care worker that my dad died of Covid. Yes he was elderly but until he was exposed he was soldiering on and relatively healthy and happy for an 89 year old. What happened was he died, alone, in hospital from Covid pneumonia without having seen his much loved family for 7 days.

As far as I’m concerned your DP is entitled to refuse the vaccination just I am am entitled to refuse him caring for any of my remaining elderlies.

[Lovemusic33]

I’m sorry but if he wants to work in a role that involves contact with vulnerable people then he should have the vaccine or find another job.

I work in social care and have had it. I also employ a carer for my venerable dd and wouldn’t want someone who’s not vaccinated caring for her (especially when she can’t have the vaccine herself).

Employers have a right to ensure their customers/clients are safe and if they feel that’s by making sure their employers are vaccinated then so be it.

[l2b2]

Not wanting to protect your patients is incongruent to working in healthcare.

OP's husband is in the wrong profession.

[Brefugee]

I’ve suggested to him he gets a copy of his contract and join a union.

I kind of hope the union flips him the bird. They're ok when you need them, right?

[peak2021]

If your DP is only contracted for a given number of hours and all else is overtime, I'm not sure there is a great deal he can do. Though I think he should seek professional advice.

I think he is wrong in his view though.

[underneaththeash]

If he works in health and social care, he has a duty of care towards his patients/service users. That includes not making them ill or killing them with a preventable illness.

There is nothing to worry about with the vaccine at all, it has been tested on thousands and thousands of people. I was glad to get mine.

I think everyone who wants to take part in society and not social distance should have the vaccine.
I do not want to sit next to someone unvaccinated at any event who could potentially make me very unwell.

[PinkDaffodil2]

@QuestionEverythingOrBeASheep people with a medical history precluding vaccination are presumably protected due to disability or maternity as a protected characteristic. Vague unease, distrust of authority, belief that you are ‘special’ - no special protection.
It also has a massive effect on services when someone is positive, even if picked up early on a lateral flow. There’s still time to have infected others and at the very least for many to have to self isolate which can decimate a service.

[reformedcharacters]

Yes MorganKitten, people lie about being exempt from wearing masks to protect others.

[Magicalsundays]

@OldScrappyAndHungry

I’d have been very distressed if my dad was still in a care home if I thought that his carers were refusing the vaccine 😢.

^^ This.

Unless they HAD a very good reason to refuse it.

[lightand]

Get legal advice.
Try the legal board on here first, would be my advice.
A lot of MNs are not legal experts or legal at all.

[custardbear]

I think if you work in healthcare then the Hippocratic oath takes precedence- ref patients - "I will do no harm or injustice to them ...."

[nordica]

Chris Whitty said during yesterday's press conference that this is nothing new; there is an existing requirement for surgeons to have a Hep B vaccine to be able to perform surgeries.

[GintyMcGinty]

We don't really know yet if they 'can' do this as there haven't been any test cases yet at tribunals.

In the meantime though he can raise a grievance. If that fails and he has more than 2 years service, he can resign and lodge a claim with the tribunal for constructive dismissal. Maybe he will win, maybe not.

Or he can get the vaccine.

[pbdr]

To be fair your partner is disadvantaging and posing a threat to his patients.
I don't believe the vaccine should be compulsory for anyone, but I also believe that anyone who chooses not to be vaccinated is a potential risk, and restrictions need to be put in place to protect other vulnerable people from them.

[ancientgran]

You get given a card with your name date, vaccine given and the batch number at your first appointment. They gave me the card with all the details but the name is blank. I could put Mickey Mouse on it. It is bad when you think about it, I could give anyone the card, not that I would. I assume at some stage they will give something more tamper proof, not that mine needs much tampering with.

[truthisalie]

TB and Hepatitis B vaccines are not new vaccines. You can't compare these vaccines with rushed vaccines. For now you know know about the short-term side effects but nothing about the long-term.
If he OP can work wearing full PPE then it's be his right and shouldn't be threatened.

[Wiredforsound]

There is no way any employer would want him around vulnerable people when there are vaccinated people willing to do the job. That’s common sense.

[MrsFCastle]

For avoidance of doubt he definitely wouldn’t lie about getting it. That’s a ridiculous suggestion. I think deep down he knows that getting it is the right thing to do. I’ve told him that if he doesn’t make up his mind very very soon he should definitely seek some official advice from union and or legal. Someone asked why he hasn’t joined before now....no idea why! Legal advice is likely to be costly and we don’t have money to burn. I’m not getting into a debate on vaccines, but some Very valid and interesting points on both sides of the fence. Thanks all for your replies.

[ancientgran]

@MrsFCastle

He had a permanent contact for37.5 hours a week. I’ve suggested to him he gets a copy of his contract and join a union.

In my experience unions don't generally get involved in issues from before you join, bit like taking out insurance after the accident. With the covid issues they might get involved but they might not.