Employer disadvantaging and threatening staff who haven’t had the vaccine

[MrsFCastle]

My partner works in health and social care. He isn’t an anti vaxxer. Just feels it’s too soon. His employer is furious and is threatening to stop offering shifts if they don’t get it. I’m genuinely concerned about his job security. Can they do this? Helpful replies only please. This isn’t a thread about anti/pro vax.

[DogInATent]

It sounds like his employer is more concerned about his health than he is.

The employer has a duty towards the health and safety of employees and those they come into contact with. If the employee is in a client-facing healthcare role and is refusing the vaccine then they are being very sensible in pulling his shifts. They could be interpreting it as their legal duty (jury is out on this).

Regardless what you think about this being a pro-/anti-vax discussion it very clearly is about that if you're partner has vague notions of "too soon". Of course he's an anti-vaxxer, maybe not in general and for other people but very specifically and definitely about when it comes to himself.

[Randomschoolworker19]

I work in a school with CEV children, and like doctors or anyone else working with vulnerable people the expectation is to be vaccinated.

Honestly, if you work in such a sector I think it is grossly negligent and grounds for immediate dismissal unless you're medically unable to be vaccinated and have an exemption.

[Sadsiblingatsea]

Surely forcing employees to have invasive medical procedures is illegal?
Where is the precedent for this?

[southeastdweller]

The shitty employer has a duty to fulfil his part of his employee's contract. I would be livid if I was OP's partner about this employer (unlawfully) stopping me working.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Until this has been tested at the Employment Tribunal, no one knows for sure

Exactly - as said we can all theorise but we simply don't know yet

There seems to me a difference between requiring jabs for new employees and obliging current ones to have them, but time will tell

[Jangle33]

I think the employer is acting lawfully. Don’t think the employment contract or union is going to help here.

I suggest he finds a new career that’s not frontline healthcare sharpish!

[starfish4]

I work for an employer who is very hot on health and safety for staff, colleagues and customers. It really wouldn't surprise me if they try and find a clause under health and safety that means they can insist on vaccination. Apparently some people in our workplace haven't taken up their vaccine offer and I already know a few who are kicking off saying their colleagues aren't keeping them protected.

Initially I was nervous and reluctant to have my vaccine, but once I got my head around it, I was there like a shot (no matter what it took). Hopefully your DH will feel it's right for him soon and won't have to worry about this.

[NeverDropYourMoonCup]

@MrsFCastle

He had a permanent contact for37.5 hours a week. I’ve suggested to him he gets a copy of his contract and join a union.

37.5 hrs/pw. So he's admin?

He can fly a desk somewhere outside the NHS then. With his extensive qualifications in medicine so that he knows better than those who have been working flat out for a year to develop and test the vaccines, I'm sure he'll have no problem in finding alternative employment.

[toocold54]

Yes the employer can request he gets it done or lose his job.

I know someone who was in a similar situation.

I think many companies will be the same and things like holiday companies will follow too so If I was him I’d just have the vaccination because a new employer could ask for it too.

[reformedcharacters]

According to ACAS he cannot be forced. I don’t imagine it will be long before there’s a test case.

www.acas.org.uk/working-safely-coronavirus/getting-the-coronavirus-vaccine-for-work

UNISON point out that the Government have indicated the vaccine will not a requirement.

[TomHardyAndMe]

@reformedcharacters

Could he lie? Is proof provided with the vaccine?

Yes, a card is given with the batch number on.

[beckypv]

I think it would be great if healthcare providers did have to get vaccinated. But sadly I think this could cause massive problems in the care sector. I’m pretty sure that there is a shortage of care workers, and given I think the uptake has been lower in some areas of society who often work in social care..... there could be even bigger recruitment problems in the future. This will need to be considered when they create the rules.

[BlueTimes]

@reformedcharacters

According to ACAS he cannot be forced. I don’t imagine it will be long before there’s a test case.

www.acas.org.uk/working-safely-coronavirus/getting-the-coronavirus-vaccine-for-work

UNISON point out that the Government have indicated the vaccine will not a requirement.

Even if it doesn’t become a legal requirement or employers don’t have the right to insisted upon it, employees can still be dismissed if under two years’ service.

[WhoWants2Know]

Normally if you have a 37.5 hour contract, the employer will need to offer those hours.

But there's usually something in the contract like "comply with other reasonable requests, subject to the demands of the service," which is where OP's partner may find himself breaching the terms of his contract.

Generally speaking, if an employer asks you to do something, you need to either have a very good reason to say no or go looking for a different job.

[bathsh3ba]

Surely it's the age old question of whose 'rights' are considered to trump others' and the law is usually woolly on that. Until it gets taken to court I don't think anyone knows. Is it patient or service user facing? If not, could he side step to a back office job?

[WhoWants2Know]

Also, if the OP's partner is working with vulnerable people, I think they are entitled to refuse his assistance if he's not vaccinated. I have seen that happen.

[reformedcharacters]

That’s true in any job for any reason BlueTimes so any employees over 2 years service will be fine. Employers will need to draw up new contracts for new recruits.

[reformedcharacters]

I might add the 2 years doesn’t apply to dismissal on the grounds of a protected characteristic.

[Bluetrews25]

OP, when won't it be too soon?
What timescale or specific evidence is he waiting for?

I work in healthcare
I have had to prove I am immune to rubella, TB, chicken pox, hep B.

If he doesn't want the vaccination, fine, but he can't have this kind of job. No-one is going to tie him down and jab him. But he may lose his job.

[Jangle33]

Any employees over 2 years won’t be fine. Entirely reasonable to make it a role requirement even for existing staff.

[Dadnotamum72]

@WhoWants2Know

Also, if the OP's partner is working with vulnerable people, I think they are entitled to refuse his assistance if he's not vaccinated. I have seen that happen.

Would they be intitled to refuse assistance from someone that can't as opposed to wont have the vaccine?

[TutiFrutti]

He may well have the right to decline a vacinne but I absolutely reserve the right to insist all carers who come into contact with my son are vaccinated.
If it is that much of an issue for him I suggest he looks for alternative employment rather than consider lying about it and putting vulnerable people at risk.

[museumum]

@Sadsiblingatsea

Surely forcing employees to have invasive medical procedures is illegal?
Where is the precedent for this?

My friend has just joined the ambulance service and had to have a whole set of vaccinations.

[Anna12345678910]

Care home with vulnerable?
Other H&S care?
Agency nursing working with vulnerable?

What does he do?

[Jaichangecentfoisdenom]

He should be grateful he can have it now and protect you, both your families, and himself, apart from the people for whom he is caring. Have you not seen the statistics?