How would you feel about a return to a tier system

[RosieLemonade]

Seen them mentioned a bit in the news today despite hearing previously they wouldn't be returning. Do you think they are a good idea and do you think you previous tier has a bearing on your opinion?

@lunar1

Unless the army are out on the streets preventing the selfish fuckers who insist on leaving high infection areas to places with very few cases it's completely pointless.

It doesn't work because the minority are selfish.

Yeah, super selfish doing my job to keep the country running. Must have a word with myself and do my job from home (impossible).

I don't think it makes sense. When people have to cross in to different tiers for work, school, health care, shopping etc- what's the point really?

If would be great if we could all come out of this on the same level. However, maybe we should learn lessons of lockdown before - opening up too soon when numbers were low down south and numbers high up north, only meant more of a struggle for the north to get their numbers down.

There would be some crossing of tiers for work, but those that are going to do it to go to a pub in a different tier are probably going to break rules anyway. If it means things can start to open up earlier in say 75% of the country, get the economy going, then maybe that's not a bad idea. Areas that are struggling with their case numbers, will have the benefit of seeing whether it works for those with lower numbers, rather than risk their numbers going up even more.

I totally get that parts of the country with low prevalence such as the south west shouldn't need to be 'held back' because of what's happening in Blackburn or Leicester.
but those places, and others have been in some form of lockdown pretty much permanently for a year now. It's thought to be because of the inability of low paid workers to self isolate properly. It is absolutely isn't fair to allow those areas to be locked down indefinitely.

@Missfelipe

I dread this. We are in a low rate borough but have never really been out of lockdown due to other borough rates being sky high (Manchester). I live 1 mile from the border of an area that was tier 2...we never crossed to take advantage of things being open elsewhere but I’d think twice if we were put back in this position and we had the same low rates. My mental health is through the floor, we haven’t seen anyone since this all started and we just crave some semblance of a normal life.

You must live near me. Exactly the same here. Depressing thought isn't it.

Around us the higher tiers were the areas where there is the most poverty, overcrowding and poor housing. Those 'selfish fuckers' were the people coming in to ensure food was delivered and on shelves, the hospitals were clean and the care home staffed. They took takeaways and deliveries to the doors of the 'unselfish' who then felt fit to judge them for living in a higher tier. Thank to everyone who takes these risks and accepting a lifestyle where the risk of catching Covid is low is a luxury would be a better response.

This 100%.

When the idea of tiers was first announced, I remember thinking it seemed sensible in principle. Before that, we had various areas under stricter measures but all the measures varied. So Liverpool had slightly different rules to Manchester, the North East had different rules again and poor Leicester was still stuck in never ending lockdown. It was horribly confusing. A system where the rules were consistent and there was a clear set of guidelines for moving up and down tiers seemed better in theory.

But if course, in reality it didn't work. If the tier areas are large then rural areas with low rates get treated the same as cities with high rates. But if the areas are small then you get too many boundaries and lots of people move between the tier areas regularly. And there weren't clear guidelines for moving between tiers. Areas in higher tiers got stuck there despite having lower rates than several areas in lower tiers. Meanwhile Essex council decided to move the county up to Tier 2 when their rates were lower than the normal Tier 2 threshold.

I also think the PM will be keen to avoid because basically all the MPs in higher tiers will just be permanently arguing about it.
However there is a difference between tiers as they were and measures in a small confined area, smaller than local authority level.
This hasn't been done much up to now but presumably the data coming through is better these days. But you still have the issue that people will have to come and go for work, school etc.
If there ever was again a serious problem in a small defined area I think it would be a good idea to shut it down entirely for a few days, literally no-one in or out (obviously it's tricky for key workers). Police cordons around the outside. But the government seems to have never given this a proper go

Not fucking happy, I was in tier 3 & 4 for months here and honestly the tier system is what destroyed any tiny sliver of positivity I had left. The thought makes me feel physically ill.

As for places like Leicester and Blackburn and Bolton which have never got down to low levels at any point in the last year ,it would be really great if the government could acknowledge the reasons why (thought to be lack of people coming forward for tests because they or their family members won't get paid if they have to self isolate) and tackle that issue head-on. There's clearly complicated issues in those places which aren't going to go away.

Also in large areas it doesn’t work. Within my city some wards were really high but some were very low. So we all got lumped into a tier that within some areas of the city did not make sense.

Tiers are just another name for lockdown. So they can get to fuck.
Ffs. People still want to be locked down??

No thanks. We’ve been stuck in tier 3 since this all started because I live in a large council area. Cases remain low in my area but in an area an 45 minute drive away, they are high. Same council. Same rules. My daughter goes to nursery in a different council area, different tier last time 🤷🏼‍♀️ I won’t be sticking to tiers if that’s their plan.

Basically if you live in an area with a high population density you are fucked, no matter how responsible you are.
I've been in tier 3 (Scotland) since they were introduced. Visitors inside the home not allowed since September, pubs and restaurants shut since October. It's fucking miserable

@ShanghaiDiva

Tiers don’t work if movement between tiers is allowed.

This is true. But the boundaries are also awkward. Can I go to my normal shop because it is just over the county boundary? DH's work is just over the boundary; there are children at their nearest school over the boundary...

For my parents, they would almost never, unless going visiting, go over the county boundary because they're right in the middle. I live within 5 miles of the boundaries of two counties that I don't live in. I would far more commonly go that way than deeper into my own county.

How do you stop movement between tiers? Let's say they stop movement between our town and the one next to it. How? Roadblocks? I can think of 4-5 ways that are hardly out of my way that would go on minor roads. There are several others that are less accessible. Do you put a roadblock on every road?

Movement just too difficult to police.

@BilboBercow

Basically if you live in an area with a high population density you are fucked, no matter how responsible you are. I've been in tier 3 (Scotland) since they were introduced. Visitors inside the home not allowed since September, pubs and restaurants shut since October. It's fucking miserable

That’s not quite true because other than the massive spike in December London has done quite well overall and now, unlike the northern cities, has had its levels fall dramatically (in GM meanwhile cases went up a bit, then down a bit, and are now far higher than in London) . For most of the autumn most northern cities were in trouble whereas most of London was doing pretty well until the Kent variant

A no from me.

If they were to try and reintroduce tiers they would absolutely have to greatly increase the financial support available to individuals and businesses in higher tiers. If they're not going to lift this lockdown fully for all by the end of spring a universal basic income surely can't be avoided any longer.

Yet they're still quibbling about maintaining the small universal credit increase. I think once schools are back all other restrictions need to be lifted to enable all to have the chance to earn a proper, decent living. The government won't get majority compliance for continued tiers or further lockdowns anyway.

It's the poorest who have made the biggest sacrifices while vaccines were developed. Now the rollout is going well everything needs to open up, perhaps keeping masks and other Covid safe measures for a period. I'll continue to wear my mask for a while, happy for that to be optional though. Social distancing needs to go for hospitality, theatres etc to be viable.

Most importantly we all need to see our families and friends and interact properly in person again. You can't tell half the country they can and the other half they still can't after a year!

YES

We would be in Tier 1........

For purely selfish reasons, yes. Our borough and all surrounding ones are really low case numbers plus high levels of hospital capacity and a vaccine programme that’s already reached the 50+ group. Currently at 72 cases/100,000.

I’d be happy if a little more was opened up and a relaxation on meeting up outdoors.

Anyone who wants to check their rates this site is run by a mumsnetter and updated daily

www.covidmessenger.com

@LittleOwl

@Missfelipe

I dread this. We are in a low rate borough but have never really been out of lockdown due to other borough rates being sky high (Manchester). I live 1 mile from the border of an area that was tier 2...we never crossed to take advantage of things being open elsewhere but I’d think twice if we were put back in this position and we had the same low rates. My mental health is through the floor, we haven’t seen anyone since this all started and we just crave some semblance of a normal life.

All of this. I too ljve in Manchester, where we've had 11 days in the last year without additional restrictions. The way London was treated compared to the rest of the country was shocking and it led to the lockdown that we are still in. We can't have one rule for London and another for the rest of the country. It just adds to the division, and I think we have enough of that

Will the policy of moving covid patients to spare ICU beds around the country stop with tiers in order to stop the new variants being nicely spread around the country?

Reading the comments here it seems tiers would work if fun stuff like pubs stayed shut so the incentive to go to another tier was removed.

My vaccinated neighbours already had visitors today and yesterday inside their homes (nice respectable elderly tories not the typical picture of rule breakers) so good luck to whoever has to work out the next round of restrictions with all the older people vaccinated having stayed at home for a year now and no longer playing ball.

People were quite happy with tiers until they were put into a higher tier themselves. My DB was had no complaints with being in tier 1 even though I was in a tier 2 area with LESS cases than his tier 1 area. As soon as he went into tier 3 it became “unfair”. However, he didn’t give a shit when I was in tier 2

R*osieLemonade

coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map

Not unless they look at it on a town by town basis rather than lumping whole counties with very different demographics together. We live in very rural village in North Lancashire, our nearest city is Lancaster and both have had very low cases throughout. Yet we’ve been lumped in with the south of the county, which still has high cases despite restrictions since early September. I’ve never even been to places like Burnley and nor do I particularly want to yet unless they can finally get their cases down, we’re made to suffer. It’s made even worse by the government telling us that if we’re good little boys and girls we’ll be able to get out of tier 4 but we can’t m, it’s totally out of our control.

No tiers please

I can’t see them ever end if re-introduced

If people are vaccinated no more of this shit please