Next week's announcement won't be the good news we think it'll be

[likeamillpond]

Listening to the news and reading between the lines regarding the latest variant that's supposed to be resistant to the vaccine, I don't think it's going to be brilliant news next week.
I dont think it'll be a case of, We've got this. You can all go out now.
Im hoping theyll say for certain that schools can go back. At least.
I think we are still in the shit. They just haven't told us.
I'm prepared to be told I'm worrying over nothing.

Today 07:59 IndiaMay

I'd like to get married. And I'm not talking about a wedding, I mean a marriage ceremony. The breach of human rights for fuel sake of a flipping virus is disgusting“

Are marriages banned? Didn’t know that.

They are unless one of you is dying or about to have life changing surgery @denisethemenace

www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-for-small-marriages-and-civil-partnerships/covid-19-guidance-for-small-marriages-and-civil-partnerships

Oh dear, hadn’t known that.
Hopefully, just a couple more months 🤞

@TheKeatingFive

What do the government have to gain from lockdowns though? This is something people never seem to really answer.

What they gain is limiting scrutiny over how badly they’ve handled more sophisticated approaches to handling the pandemic (track and trace for example.

As well as limiting scrutiny over how poorly the nhs was able to respond to a crisis like this (due to long term underfunding, failure to prepare).

Lockdowns avoid the danger of the NHS being overrun, thus them looking out of control, or them having to oversee difficult decisions about who gets care.

I see lots to gain for the government. Lockdown isn’t exactly an ‘easy’ option, but it is a ‘simple’ one and means the government can avoid doing any difficult stuff to actually tackle this and push the burden on the people again and again.

The failure to prepare is more a central government and funding issue. Reductions in funding in real terms and loss of public health local area services for example.

If the NHS were to be overwhelmed the death rate would increase significantly and no one would want that.

There would also be a lot of knock on implications for society that would be extremely unpleasant for everyone.

Just relieved I haven't fallen for the fear propaganda and have been able to see through this
The mood is changing, there will be riots soon

Are you planning to riot @Beaniecats? Or do you prefer to just sit on Mumsnet peddling the same tired old conspiracy theories every few posts?

MrsFezziwig

Just relieved I haven't fallen for the fear propaganda and have been able to see through this
The mood is changing, there will be riots soon

“Are you planning to riot @Beaniecats? Or do you prefer to just sit on Mumsnet peddling the same tired old conspiracy theories every few posts”

It must be incredibly difficult living life believing everyone is out to get you.

As long as primary schools are back I’ll be the happiest woman in the world!!

There's quite a lot of discrepancy on this thread.

Adults on MN seem to really want to see and spend time with their own parents. It's traumatic to miss out on this and cruel that older generations have been denied seeing their families throughout restrictions. But they'll accept this to protect their loved ones.

However, their own DC are struggling ridiculously seeing only THEIR parents and siblings in their close knit family unit. They need outside attention more than anything and deserve to put their friends and teachers (and their families, and therfore society at large) at risk, just for social interaction.

Woolff that’s not a discrepancy at all.

Children (primary age) need face to face social interaction more than adults. Firstly because they interact through play so a phone conversation or zoom call doesn’t really work for them. Secondly because they are still learning social skills and need the practice much more than adults who have (hopefully) already learned them.

@ComtesseDeSpair

I think the moment they announce school are reopening, then unless they also have a clear and timely plan for reopening everything else then it’ll be a floodgate for people socialising in each other’s homes regardless of whether it’s “allowed.” I have no intention of spending further months locked away indoors if it’s apparently safe enough for hundred of different families to intermingle every day through education settings, and don’t know anyone else who would.

Jesus Christ.

THIS is the problem with opening schools.

People wanting kids back at school for their education or socialising, is one thing (I think it's too soon) but people just doing SS they please because if this ridiculous way of thinking is going to get schools closed again.

THIS is the problem with opening schools.
People wanting kids back at school for their education or socialising, is one thing (I think it's too soon) but people just doing SS they please because if this ridiculous way of thinking is going to get schools closed again.

On MN schools are the be all and end all. People have said that they are willing to face restrictions for longer to open schools.

However, in the real world, many people don’t even have school age kids and are having to lockdown so other people’s kids can go and learn and socialise. Meanwhile their businesses are going under and they face losing their homes. Keeping schools open is the last thing they care about, especially when schools are something (yes, I know as a country we’re not admitting it yet) that does contribute to the spread of the virus.

The reason I’ve mentioned Florida so much is because across many counties there, you see these simple restrictions:
Reduce capacity (rotas)
Masks - even at school age
Social distancing - they can do it due to reduced capacity
Everything can open a bit and everyone gets to continue living, earning, socialising.
I’m not saying they are perfect, but it looks a lot better than this madness we’re living in.
Those measures are also what Indy Sage has advocated pretty much.

@DBML I do agree, I don't understand why secondary schools haven't been put on rotas. I think with primary there are so many kids in at the moment it would be impossible without a knock on effect on keyworkers childcare.

The only reason I can think is that it goes against the 'schools are safe' narrative which seems to be being pushed again in several papers this week.

@wonderstuff
Lots of key worker places are taken up because they are 'entitled' not because they need them.

Tighten the criteria up a lot and then I think rotas would work in the short term. I favour 1/2 in on Mondays and Tuesdays closed on weds for cleaning and ppa and then other half in on Thursdays and Fridays. With the kids at home given follow up and consolidation tasks.

@Losinghope2

Sometimes I feel like, when I read threads like this on Mumsnet (I know I should just hide them but hey ho) that people actually want to be in lockdown forever.

We can’t keep being lockdown for every mutation that comes about.

We have to get out of lockdown this year I think. I get, not too fast, not all at once, but we can’t keep dragging it out and talking of several years of mask wearing and no gatherings for long term etc.

I’m in my 30s, single, living alone.

I’m desperate to be in a relationship, get married, start a family etc. I’m also desperate to see my parents and family and nieces and nephews in person. I don’t have anything to live for at the moment. I don’t have much time left, in my 30s, my parents are getting older (I’m a later born child and their youngest) and I am so devestated that Covid has taken a whole year of my life, and now people are saying they are ok with it taking several years out of their life. It’s all fine and dandy when you are living a middle class life, when you are already married with children. But I am having to come to terms with the fact that this has been postponed for me, and I don’t know if it will now be a reality for me.
(And before anyone suggests online dating, yes I have tried this but it just doesn’t work for me at the moment with being unable to actually meet up with anyone).

I don't think anyone responded to you yet but I just wanted to say I'm very much in a similar position.

30s, single - my LDR hit the skids thanks to covid, I don't live alone but with flatmates who are nice to chat to, but not close friends.

I have been lucky enough to meet someone virtually through work (not a colleague, on a joint project) and we're planning to meet as soon as we can. But at the moment it's totally illegal to do anything. It's unbelievably hard knowing he's right there in the same city but we can't see each other. Especially after an LDR where, by the time it ended, we hadn't seen each other in 9 months because there was an ocean in the way. It's like a psychological torture, especially when you're desperate to settle down. Like being hungry but having food behind a glass wall. You can see it and you want it but you're not getting it!

For those who are already married or in established relationships or who have children, I think this is hard to understand.

When this started I was very much a "stick to the rules no matter what" person. I did have a total breakdown in June, but hey.

The longer it goes on, the more it is beginning to chafe. I can't imagine I'm the only one. I think it will get to the stage where the government will have a very hard job keeping everyone apart.

@Lockheart you can meet one other person outdoors for exercise. Why can’t you meet the person you have been in touch with? If he/she is in the same city why not?

@Woolff

There's quite a lot of discrepancy on this thread.

Adults on MN seem to really want to see and spend time with their own parents. It's traumatic to miss out on this and cruel that older generations have been denied seeing their families throughout restrictions. But they'll accept this to protect their loved ones.

However, their own DC are struggling ridiculously seeing only THEIR parents and siblings in their close knit family unit. They need outside attention more than anything and deserve to put their friends and teachers (and their families, and therfore society at large) at risk, just for social interaction.

What discrepancy?

Elderly parents are at far more risk of becoming seriously ill and dying from the virus. Not visiting until they are fully vaccinated makes sense.

Children are not generally at serious risk from the virus but are suffering greatly from a lack of social interaction with peers which is essential for their development. The argument for staying out of the classroom to protect teachers and parents only stands up if those adults aren't doing any other mixing in their community. Yet I see many who want schools to stay closed also calling for retail, hairdressers, hospitality to reopen and booking holidays.

As the infection rate in schools has been shown to largely reflect the infection rate in the wider community, rather than schools being a significant driver of infection on their own, it would make sense to keep restrictions on travelling between different areas in the UK and internationally for the slightly longer term. So if everyone shops locally, eats out and pursues leisure activities locally then it's the same families mixing in and out of school. Exceptions for travel for work obviously.

But as the government clearly have no appetite for properly tightening the borders, keeping schools closed and pursuing a 'base restrictions on number of cases' policy is a nonsense.

carlislemumof4
Everything you posted here shows why teachers need vaccinating. No matter how you justify it, I AM careful and I don’t see why your decisions should put me at risk because I am expected to teach your children in a room crammed with people, little ventilation and no expectation of mask wearing.

@Lockheart and @Losinghope2 my heart goes out to you both. I don't think there has been much media attention on how terribly harsh this has been on young adults, it must be particularly galling with all the attention on schools and parents when you have legitimate needs being ignored and you aren't actually at a significant risk. You seem to be right at the bottom of the pile.

[quote ScatteredMama82]@Lockheart you can meet one other person outdoors for exercise. Why can’t you meet the person you have been in touch with? If he/she is in the same city why not?[/quote]
Because it would be a social meeting, which is against the law. Additionally one or both of us would have to travel outside our local area - London is a big city and I'm not sure the police would think it reasonable for someone in Croydon, say, to travel to e.g. Hampstead for exercise.

This is quite aside from the practicalities of having to take public transport and hang out in the cold / bad weather with no public toilets and so forth.

[quote wonderstuff]**@Lockheart* and @Losinghope2* my heart goes out to you both. I don't think there has been much media attention on how terribly harsh this has been on young adults, it must be particularly galling with all the attention on schools and parents when you have legitimate needs being ignored and you aren't actually at a significant risk. You seem to be right at the bottom of the pile.

[/quote]
Thank you, that is kind of you to say.

To be clear, I do think schools should be opened in priority to pubs and so forth - no question of that.

But if you're going to allow 20+ households to mix in classrooms 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, then I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to allow households to mix indoors with limits.

Gee, what would any government stand to gain from having almost total control over its populace indefinitely... Why on earth would they take the opportunity to ban protest, suspend elections and public/democratic process, potentially indefinitely, and thus maintain their own power? See www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/11/10/930464419/report-the-pandemic-is-not-good-for-freedom-and-democracy-but-there-are-exceptio?t=1613569421025

From the linked report:

'Since the coronavirus outbreak began, the condition of democracy and human rights has grown worse in 80 countries [from what I can tell, that's just among those studied]. Governments have responded by engaging in abuses of power, silencing their critics, and weakening or shuttering important institutions...'

'As one respondent on Cambodia put it, “The government [took] coronavirus as the opportunity to demolish democratic space.”'

Hmmm.......

And: www.idea.int/news-media/multimedia-reports/global-overview-covid-19-impact-elections

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51876269

It's a real stumper.

Just why the rich and powerful might seek to capitalise on and prolong/amplify circumstances that enable them to consolidate their wealth and power, to the tune of trillions of dollars, shall remain an eternally irresolvable mystery....

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/26/nhs-deal-with-hancocks-former-neighbour-a-disgrace-says-labour

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/15/chumocracy-covid-revealed-shape-tory-establishment

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/18/ppe-suppliers-with-political-ties-given-high-priority-status-report-reveals

www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/10/the-rich-got-richer-during-the-pandemic-and-that-s-a-daunting-sign-for-our-recovery/

Power and wealth aren't actually driving forces in the world, though. Money doesn't make the world go round. That's just for the story books....

A better question would be: what have the Government got to lose from continuing with this? Unlike a large proportion of their subjects, whose lives have been impoverished or destroyed by their policies, MPs have houses (nice ones, at that), generous salaries, stable jobs and a sense of purpose in life. I imagine most also have family lives. They're not suffering or losing out as a result of this.

@BustopherPonsonbyJones

carlislemumof4 Everything you posted here shows why teachers need vaccinating. No matter how you justify it, I AM careful and I don’t see why your decisions should put me at risk because I am expected to teach your children in a room crammed with people, little ventilation and no expectation of mask wearing.

I am supportive of teachers being prioritised for the vaccine and pro mask wearing in schools.

It’s practically irrelevant to me as I’m planning to meet family indoors as soon as my parents have received their immunity from the first dose of vaccine. They had it 2.5 weeks ago so not long to wait!

@nonono1
Yeah well that's the problem really isn't it. Just worry about you and stuff anyone else.

It’s practically irrelevant to me as I’m planning to meet family indoors as soon as my parents have received their immunity from the first dose of vaccine. They had it 2.5 weeks ago so not long to wait!

For doing this, I think you’re a bit silly. For having to tell people, I think you’re a twat.