I've been invited for my vaccine but not sure what I want to do

[annabellacomestotea]

Hello everyone

I've been invited for my vaccine much sooner than I expected. I am a 31 year old woman, I do not work in a public facing capacity and have no health concerns (normal BMI, only health concern of note being diagnosed with PCOS and generalised anxiety disorder, which would have no impact on me being offered the vaccine.)

Although I am of course grateful to have been offered the vaccine, I was hoping to be offered it later as I have had concerns about it.

I am not sure if my concerns are legitimate or the result of absorbing so much mixed messaging online, from friends and family and even news outlets. In real life, some of my friends and family support the vaccine and others are 'wait and see', whilst others are vehemently against.

I have had everything else from yellow fever to rabies vaccinations, but I have concerns about this vaccine, especially as it has been linked (whether factually or not I'm unsure) to infertility. As a 31 year old woman with no pre-existing health conditions, I don't like the idea of taking a vaccine for something unlikely to impact me greatly. I also have never taken the flu jab for the same reason.

Anyone of a similar age group, would you take the vaccine? Do you have any concerns? Are these concerns unfounded, or should I be asking more questions? And if I reject the vaccine now, am I able to take it later on, and how would this work?

Thank you.

I think you are really struggling with the phrase 'lack of evidence'.

You could be correct, you could be wrong but you don't have the evidence at present to suggest taking it to combat covid. You certainly shouldn't be avoiding the vaccine because you belive it to be better protection.

Single mention my arse! You are obsessed with it.

The article is also not informative, there is no trial data other than the very limited ones you have already linked to to support it.

I'm not at all against vitamin D supplements and as I said before I think it probably is a good idea for a lot of people to take them. I can never be arsed with taking tablets myself but if you are a supplement taking person it's probably a good one to take.

However to equate the possible but unproven benefits of Vitamin D with the very much proven benefits of vaccination is a huge misrepresentation. It is certainly not some kind of valid alternative although it might have a modest benefit and is unlikely to harm.
That's where I take issue because you appeared to suggest that taking vitamin D (and living a healthy lifestyle) means you'd have no need of the vaccine and that just isn't evidenced.

Try more than 2 minutes @Chewingle www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-in-scotland-expectant-mothers-should-seek-help-if-worried-as-stillbirths-rise-073h3gw5d

ONS conclude it wasnt significant but the highest rate of stillbirths this year came in April, a month normally a bit lower than the winter month. It was peak lockdown for the first wave. They havent yet studied the winter peak.

International studies are available e.g. Italian report fn.bmj.com/content/early/2020/10/30/archdischild-2020-320682

And a large American study showing higher rates of pre term birth in mothers with coronavirus, www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6938e1.htm#:~:text=During%20COVID%2D19%E2%80%93associated%20hospitalizations,COVID%2D19%20infections%20during%20pregnancy.

Stillbirths are, fortunately, rare and mothers who dont have coronavirus have generally had higher birthweight children, usually associated with better outcomes.

Having a vaccine if ttc makes sense.

I am pro vaccine, enormously so.

But if you actually read the info. - the increase in still births, premature births etc are not thought to be because of covid but because maternity care had to be substantially reduced pre and post birth during covid

* The threefold increase in stillbirths observed by us compared with the previous year does not seem a direct consequence of COVID-19 infection. We believe it could be a consequence of induced life changes from the lockdown and in particular caused by reduced visits to hospitals due to the fear of contracting the COVID-19 infection. This behaviour has led to the postponement or suspension of all medical checks even in pregnant women.3 The significant decrease of late preterm infants during the lockdown period could be attributed to obliged rest at home due to the lockdown, reduced physical activity, reduced infection load and increased hygiene.4 *

From the bmj link you posted!

@TrufflyPig

I think you are really struggling with the phrase 'lack of evidence'.

You could be correct, you could be wrong but you don't have the evidence at present to suggest taking it to combat covid. You certainly shouldn't be avoiding the vaccine because you belive it to be better protection.

Single mention my arse! You are obsessed with it.

Thankfully, @TrufflyPig, with the help of friends on a Facebook group I'm on, I found again the site which listed the studies done. Here it is. Please also read the Faq, it's interesting.

c19vitamind.com/

Single mention my arse! You are obsessed with it.
I popped it into my first post on this thread, not intending to say more. But I was challenged, so....
I'm not at all obsessed. I have a life outside of this particular forum, and even another life on MN in which I have never mentioned Covid or vitamin d. It does not play a huge role in my life, and I am not fearful. Fear, I feel, makes a person all the more vulnerable, and it's a pity that so many are possessed by fear.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity
That's where I take issue because you appeared to suggest that taking vitamin D (and living a healthy lifestyle) means you'd have no need of the vaccine and that just isn't evidenced.
Healthy diet for the last 50 years, no illnesses ever, high vitamin d protection (I took the test), appearance 10 years younger than my age, devoid of fear I think I'm well able to judge the evidence for myself. The evidence, for ME, and MY BODY, is clear. I don't speak for anyone else and I've never tried to talk anyone out of a vaccine. Most people I know in the UK are very happy and proud to be called up and to get it I leave them be.

For those who won't bother to open the link above, I decided to post this. Just food for thought...

Once again, that link falls very short of actual evidence. It's literally a list of any study to do with vitamin D and covid. They are not peer reviewed and do not meet the required evidence threshold for recommendation of treatment.

Luckily one of my favourite Internet scientists has written this (fully cited) article. It talks through the limitations of the studies that I've already mentioned and the potential dangers of incorrect dosage (so probably best not to ignore NICE guidelines).

www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/vitamin-d-treatment-for-covid-19-the-evidence-is-really-weak/

I do hope you read it in full.

Covid: Claims vaccinations harm fertility unfounded www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56012529

@TrufflyPig

Once again, that link falls very short of actual evidence. It's literally a list of any study to do with vitamin D and covid. They are not peer reviewed and do not meet the required evidence threshold for recommendation of treatment.

Luckily one of my favourite Internet scientists has written this (fully cited) article. It talks through the limitations of the studies that I've already mentioned and the potential dangers of incorrect dosage (so probably best not to ignore NICE guidelines).

www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/vitamin-d-treatment-for-covid-19-the-evidence-is-really-weak/

I do hope you read it in full.

Truffly, I think you are obsessed with discrediting vitamin d. That just about says it all. It's a vital supplement, not a new medicine that needs peer review. Everyone knows it helps protect. You asked me for studies and I obliged, but even that itsn't enough for you to nit-pick.

Surely the very fact that there is even suspicion on the part of scientists, that it could help, should be enough for doctors to give it at the first signs of infection; and for everyone else to test their levels and add it, as a prophylactic?

That is all I am suggesting. It can't hurt and it the fact that it could help and you can get it cheaply over the counter or online, without a prescription. Do we need peer reviews to take magnesium or zinc or vitamin c? No, but suddenly vitamin d needs some massive research before ingestion. That's just weird to me.

The fact that you try to discredit me at every single level indicates that you are perhaps new to this (vit d) discussion and regard it as some kind of kooky new conspiracy theory. It's not. You are saying it's all rubbish?

Nobody has said vitamin D doesn’t have a place and it’s well advised that everyone should be looking to supplement especially during winter.

However, as has been shown there is no properly conducted peer reviewed research to show that it is the miracle cure you are trying to paint it as. Even then it still isn’t a replacement for vaccination.

You only discredit yourself the more you type. It's quite obvious you do not understand the importance of high quantity peer reviewed evidence when it comes to making heathcare decisions on a national basis.

You clearly didn't read the link either.

@Adirondack it’s not about playing your part when OP is worried about something as important as fertility. OP I am also 31, I have one baby but would like another in a few years time. I am very fit with a BMI of 20 and no health issues.

I am also questioning for the same reason as you. There is no evidence of impact on fertility because there have been no studies yet so those saying there is no risk are wrong it just hasn’t been established yet. My plan is to wait a while and see the impact unless of cause they bring in vaccine passports which would basically mean I would be discriminated against for making a decision about my own health. If these would prevent me doing things I want to do I would have to reconsider. I’m not anti vax but I like to make an informed choice and don’t want the government trying to force me into it.

Seeing as we haven't even been able to create a contraceptive that is 100% effective, logical thinking would suggest something that does not even interact with the body in that way at all would suddenly stop conception.. I mean how even would it..

@JanewaysBun

Seeing as we haven't even been able to create a contraceptive that is 100% effective, logical thinking would suggest something that does not even interact with the body in that way at all would suddenly stop conception.. I mean how even would it..

That’s an interesting view - accidentally stumbling on a reliable, non-surgical method of sterilisation/contraception!

I've only one question, Truffy:

would you actively discourage people from vitamin d supplement higher than the NICE recommended dosage of 400iu daily?

However, as has been shown there is no properly conducted peer reviewed research to show that it is the miracle cure you are trying to paint it as.

I never spoke of miracle cure, and not even of cure. Putting words into my mouth!

Even then it still isn’t a replacement for vaccination.
For me, it is.

would you actively discourage people from vitamin d supplement higher than the NICE recommended dosage of 400iu daily?

Yes I would, unless there is a clear medical indication for a higher dose in which case the patient would be under supervision and monitoring.

I would never recommend anyone take more than the approved daily amounts of any supplement without medical need.

Natural does not equal safe.

Decided to poke my head back in, thankful to have received some kind and educated comments. Thanks to those of you.

To those who asked, I do not work with the public or vulnerable, my job is permanently remote. I live with my family, father is vulnerable due to age and has had the vaccine but encouraged me not to get it. We have all been following the rules in terms of no mixing bubbles, wearing masks, hand sanitizing etc.

I am more relieved re people's posts about dispelling the fertility myth. I was concerned about this because I do have PCOS. Not sure why I was offered the vaccine, and don't wish to disclose location but from down south.

I note mumsnet is not the best place to ask such questions, but I can't even ask my GP at the moment because she is not available for questions other than via an online form, and I'm sure my worries about my vaccine are not high on the agenda when there are people battling cancer through this for example. It's hard to have a measured conversation about covid with anyone, friends or family, so not really sure I'll get the 'right' conversation anywhere seeing as people can't even agree these days on what a healthy diet is!

Can anyone give any information on any concerns around long term risks from vaccines? Part of my worry is if having the vaccine could harm me long term, when from what I have read, it's unlikely I'd have a a bad response to covid based on my age and health. I do understand the risks of long covid, but from what I've read, it is unlikely in a young/healthy individual.

I am trying to realistically understand the risks for myself. No, this doesn't mean I don't care about my community or the elderly, as I said I live with my elderly father. However I feel like young people are being left out in terms of what covid means to us and for us...is covid really likely to kill or cause long term effects in a young, healthy person? Is there greater risk to such a person to have the vaccine?

This is the debate in my mind.

No, am not anti-vax or here to spread misinformation. Truly not sure where to go for my information at the moment. It seems mixed no matter who I talk to.

Should add, my father told me if he was young and healthy he would not have the vaccine and has told me to wait. He said he only had it because of his age, but does not think it is necessary for me as a young, healthy woman, which of course adds to my confusion. If my father asked me to have it, I'd still be confused, but more likely to do so. However, he has actively, alongside my husband, said I should think carefully. Which makes me feel anxious.

How could anyone think a vaccine had or might have an impact on fertility when you have to have been trying for over a year before the NHS will class you as having infertility and perform investigations, and the vaccines were only put into humans for the first time in human trials at the back end of last year

Ludicrous made up side effect to pick on

@minchinfin

How could anyone think a vaccine had or might have an impact on fertility when you have to have been trying for over a year before the NHS will class you as having infertility and perform investigations, and the vaccines were only put into humans for the first time in human trials at the back end of last year

Ludicrous made up side effect to pick on

This is why - www.pfizer.com/news/hot-topics/the_facts_about_pfizer_and_biontech_s_covid_19_vaccine

Does your vaccine cause infertility?

There are no data to suggest that the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine causes infertility. It has been incorrectly suggested that COVID-19 vaccines will cause infertility because of a very short amino acid sequence in the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 that is partly shared with a protein in the placenta called syncytin-1. From a scientific perspective, the differences between the two sequences are quite significant, making it very unlikely our vaccine could generate a response that would harm the placenta.[viii],[ix]

@annabellacomestotea

Should add, my father told me if he was young and healthy he would not have the vaccine and has told me to wait. He said he only had it because of his age, but does not think it is necessary for me as a young, healthy woman, which of course adds to my confusion. If my father asked me to have it, I'd still be confused, but more likely to do so. However, he has actively, alongside my husband, said I should think carefully. Which makes me feel anxious.

Are they both medical professionals?

From the BBC:

*Claims on social media that the Covid vaccine could affect female fertility are unfounded, experts have said.

Posts have incorrectly suggested the Pfizer vaccine could cause infertility in women, or cause their bodies to attack the placenta.

But there is no "plausible biological mechanism" by which the vaccine could affect your fertility, says Prof Lucy Chappell, a professor in obstetrics at King's College London and spokesperson for the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists*

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56012529

Who do you want to listen to - some randoms on Facebook, or professional obstetricians?