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I've been invited for my vaccine but not sure what I want to do

253 replies

annabellacomestotea · 14/02/2021 10:57

Hello everyone

I've been invited for my vaccine much sooner than I expected. I am a 31 year old woman, I do not work in a public facing capacity and have no health concerns (normal BMI, only health concern of note being diagnosed with PCOS and generalised anxiety disorder, which would have no impact on me being offered the vaccine.)

Although I am of course grateful to have been offered the vaccine, I was hoping to be offered it later as I have had concerns about it.

I am not sure if my concerns are legitimate or the result of absorbing so much mixed messaging online, from friends and family and even news outlets. In real life, some of my friends and family support the vaccine and others are 'wait and see', whilst others are vehemently against.

I have had everything else from yellow fever to rabies vaccinations, but I have concerns about this vaccine, especially as it has been linked (whether factually or not I'm unsure) to infertility. As a 31 year old woman with no pre-existing health conditions, I don't like the idea of taking a vaccine for something unlikely to impact me greatly. I also have never taken the flu jab for the same reason.

Anyone of a similar age group, would you take the vaccine? Do you have any concerns? Are these concerns unfounded, or should I be asking more questions? And if I reject the vaccine now, am I able to take it later on, and how would this work?

Thank you.

OP posts:
Grannycurls · 17/02/2021 05:59

For the vitamin d deniers who won't bother to watch the video or read the article, here's some more about why NICE was so very wrong (from the article link above).

Will this study influence NICE and the Vitamin D deniers?

September 3rd 2020 saw the release of the results of a randomised controlled clinical trial (RCT) of calcifediol, from Córdoba, Spain. Of 75 patients admitted to hospital with Covid-19 pneumonia, 25 received standard care. Of these 13 (50% needed transfer to the ICU, and 2 (8%) died. 50 were randomised to receive calcifediol (part-activated vitamin D) in addition to standard care. Of these just one (2%) required transfer to the ICU and he survived.

This dramatic benefit was effective, cheap, safe, and readily available. It was just what was needed when deaths from Covid-19 were expected to increase with the end of the summer having been reached. But the benefit was ignored and calcifediol was not accepted as a treatment by doctors who were treating the seriously ill. Desperate times need desperate measures, but this did not include proven and safe calcifediol for reasons that to me were incomprehensible. Vitamin D denial is not rational as it ignores vast evidence of the extent of vitamin D deficiency, its great disadvantage during the pandemic, and the demonstrated benefit of correction of the deficiency.

The UK National Institute for Clinical and Care Excellence (NICE) stated that clinical practice should not be influenced by the result of the Córdoba study, despite its obvious great advantage. This was a centralisation of clinical decision-making previously unknown. In the early summer NICE had deferred a decision concerning the clinical use of vitamin D in the Covid-19 pandemic until it had seen evidence from an RCT. This was absurd as a widespread vitamin / hormone deficiency was clear, and correction of deficiency should have been obvious good clinical practice without the necessity of approval by NICE.

When the result of the Córdoba RCT appeared, NICE still stated that there was not enough evidence to recommend vitamin D for use in Covid-19, and it deferred approval once again, until the publication of another RCT.

The big question is WHY is NICE, and other medical institutions worldwide, denying the efficacy of vitamin D, a supplement which is effective, cheap, safe, and readily available? It's a really good question.
I repeat from the above extract: But the benefit was ignored and calcifediol was not accepted as a treatment by doctors who were treating the seriously ill.

The deaths that followed are on their hands.

My own answer: Follow The Money.

Conclusion

It is beyond reasonable doubt that vitamin D deficiency is not just common but is particularly common in those seriously ill with Covid-19, and that vitamin D replacement therapy has a vital role to play in minimising deaths during the present pandemic.

It is no longer acceptable for people to die from Covid-19 when deficient in vitamin D.

It is no longer acceptable for vitamin D (ideally in the form of calcifediol) to be withheld from people admitted to hospital severely ill with Covid-19 who are at risk of escalation to ICU and possible death.

(Sorry for once again injecting a normal thread with vitamin d info. This is the third time, and I've already been told off once. I do hope that one or two people reading this thread take it seriously enough to forgive me.)

QueenoftheAir · 17/02/2021 06:15

I just want to make sure I am making an informed decision before I agree to the vaccine

An informed decision isn’t going to come from listening to conspiracy theories. An informed decision would be:

  • Reading the research literature (much of it is open access)
  • Reading the NHS website
  • Listening to the actual medical experts in the media and reading what they have to say in the press

Not listening to random friends family or people on the internet. Logically why would either of e Corona vaccines have an impact of your fertility? More than PCOS or other aspects of your life, lifestyle, and your individual physiology?

Look, scientists and medicos aren’t in some giant conspiracy to abuse the population. Use Ockham’s razor there.

Violet80 · 17/02/2021 07:12

A couple of people have mentioned anxiety disorders and PCOS being the reasons the op has been invited for a vaccine. Can anyone explain more on the reasons for this? I'm in my early 40's, have generalised anxiety disorder that I've been on medication for for over 20 years, have diagnosed PCOS that led to needing fertility treatment to have dc and that I'm still on the bcp for to control symptoms. I also a chronic illness that has left me mostly housebound over the last 2 years, but it's not on the list of conditions for the vulnerable category.

I'd be really grateful if anyone can give me any info on how and why people with anxiety disorders and PCOS are being invited for a vaccination now? I'm absolutely desperate to have the vaccination, but I didn't think I'd be able to convince my GP that I am eligible in any way? If there was a way I could be vaccinated before the dc return to school it would be a huge weight off my mind. If I catch anything from them it always knocks me for six because of my chronic conditions, when I end up poorly and bed bound it also has a huge effect on our family due to one of our dc being Autistic and unable to cope without me supporting her with everything.

(Ironically we found out today that as my registered carer my husband can now book in for a vaccination, he's fit and healthy, mid 40's, self employed and works from home)

TrufflyPig · 17/02/2021 07:59

Granny, do you have anything besides a single non peer reviewed study from 5 months ago involving only 100 people and a YouTube link?

Neither of these things meets the required threshold for evidence. I certainly wouldn't be risking my health over it.

TrufflyPig · 17/02/2021 08:12

Actually it's less than 100 people (my bad, I assumed the control and intervention group sizes would be equal, no idea why they weren't!) it seems it wasn't of a good enough quality for Nice to take seriously:

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4912

Grannycurls · 17/02/2021 08:40

@TrufflyPig

Granny, do you have anything besides a single non peer reviewed study from 5 months ago involving only 100 people and a YouTube link?

Neither of these things meets the required threshold for evidence. I certainly wouldn't be risking my health over it.

Yes. I'm sorry you did not read the link I posted; but this often happens when people just don't want to budge an inch from their carved in stone position. The second study, the Barcelona study mentioned in the second link (not the video) is went like this: The Barcelona study involved 930 patients with severe Covid-19, some with chronic conditions, co-morbidities. They were admitted to the eight COVID-19 wards in the Hospital del Mar, Barcelona, between March 1st and May 31st 2020. This shows how long it takes for the results of an RCT to come to fruition. Each patient was randomly allocated to one of the eight wards. On five of these wards the patients were treated with standard high quality care plus calcifediol. The patients admitted to the other three wards acted as controls, receiving high quality standard care but not calcifediol. This is the way in which randomisation was considered by the investigators to be practicable.

So, almost a thousand patients, not less than a hundred.

This study is pre-print in the Lancet. If you watch the video as of minute 3:40 you will see that it will almost undoubtedly be published very soon in the Lancet and is hugely significant.

But the fact is: it has been clearly shown that just about ALL ICU patients are hugely vit d deficient.

Why on bloody earth are they not given a harmless, cheap and readily available substance immediately, instead of waiting? Giving it now could, in fact probably will, save lives. How long do you want to wait? How many lives do you not care about? Why is NICE distorting the results?

That's the big questions. Incidentally, last weekend just about all UK tabloids reported on this (what I call) scandal. One or two of the broadsheets are slowly, very slowly, picking it up. The public is beginning to take note.

Remember this: I said it here first! :)

Remember also: it's not an either/or. If you have taken, or intend to take, the vaccine, it won't hurt to take vit d as well. A years supply of 4000iu costs less than £10. Why would you hesitate? You can do both. It won't hurt, and if you have long to wait for your vaccine it could help enormously.

Surely it is better to err on the side of prophylaxes? Don't you take any vitamins or supplements?

Grannycurls · 17/02/2021 08:45

@TrufflyPig Neither of these things meets the required threshold for evidence. I certainly wouldn't be risking my health over it.

Nobody is asking you to risk your health. My decision not to take the vaccine is mine alone. I'm certainly not advocating it for everyone. I'm only highlighting that it will do you no harm to ensure your immune system is supplemented with vit d.
I haven't suggested at all that you or anyone else here risk your life.

I am only asking, no, begging you all, to research vitamin d yourself. It won't hurt to add it and it could save your life while you wait for your vaccine. Watch the video. This doctor is very much pro-vaccine.

TrufflyPig · 17/02/2021 09:22

The paper you are citing offers no methodology, is not peer reviewed and was not registered as a clinical trial. The evidence for vitamin D use in covid is still lacking.

Noone is saying don't take vitamin D, in fact NICE encourage it. But to say it is a cure for Covid and that it makes the vaccine unnecessary is not based in fact. To say it is conspiracy is rather silly.

Grannycurls · 17/02/2021 09:52

Noone is saying don't take vitamin D, in fact NICE encourage it. But to say it is a cure for Covid and that it makes the vaccine unnecessary is not based in fact. To say it is conspiracy is rather silly.

  • The amount NICE encourages is so minimal it's almost a farce. 400iu? Must be a joke. A good amount would be 1000iu at least; 4000iu is the norm for most people who have latched on to the vitamin di wagon. I'm taking 8000iu on expert recomendation.
  • I never said it is a cure. Please don't put words into my mouth. I said it boosts our immune systems, and has proven beyond doubt to massively reduce ICU hospitalisations and deaths.
  • I also never said it makes the vaccine unnecessary. I think it is unnecessary for ME. In my very first post I simply said that it is irresponsible to encourage others to either take it, or not take it. Whether you do or not, high amounts of vit di to boost your own immune system is a massive help.

Why would anyone argue against that? I just don't get it.

  • I also never mentioned conspiracy. I asked for an explanation as to why NICE is not recommending a safe, cheap and easily available supplement to boost the immune system of patients.
  • Yes I said Follow the Money. I take that statement back. Don't follow the money. Just let it remain a huge mystery.
TrufflyPig · 17/02/2021 09:57

I said it boosts our immune systems, and has proven beyond doubt to massively reduce ICU hospitalisations and deaths.

There is plenty of reasonable doubt. The papers you have cited do not offer any such proof.

Why would anyone argue against that? I just don't get it.

Because you are spreading misinformation.

I Asked for an explanation as to why NICE is not recommending a safe, cheap and easily available supplement to boost the immune system of patients.

Because there is insufficient evidence to suggest it works. The money would be better spent on evidence based treatment.

Grannycurls · 17/02/2021 10:05

The paper you are citing offers no methodology, is not peer reviewed and was not registered as a clinical trial. The evidence for vitamin D use in covid is still lacking.

So, in spite of the clear results, you want to wait, put in place a massive official trial involving all kinds of paperwork which would take several months even to be "registered as a clinical trial"? Really? And yet you don't mind a vaccine that took less than a year to develop?

57 people in the control group who were not given calcefidiol died. The basically sacrificed their lives for the all. Doctors could have immediately given the supplement but they didn't. How many trials, more deaths, till you agree that it works? There are now trials going on all over Spain. You of course are free to cling to NICE.

I personally agree with Dr Campbell who says near the end of the video, "Not using this treatment is a breach of duty of care."

It wouldn't hurt in any way and it could have saved lives.

confuseddotcom090 · 17/02/2021 10:08

Does anyone have any information about why antibody dependent enhancement is not something we should be concerned about?

I've not seen the animal study results that might allay any concerns I have on this point.

TrufflyPig · 17/02/2021 10:10

So, in spite of the clear results, you want to wait, put in place a massive official trial involving all kinds of paperwork which would take several months even to be "registered as a clinical trial"? Really?

Yes. That's how science works, you can't make cost based choices for the NHS based on flimsy evidence.

Grannycurls · 17/02/2021 10:10

Because you are spreading misinformation. Because there is insufficient evidence to suggest it works. The money would be better spent on evidence based treatment.

There's loads of evidence beyond what I've posted here but some people put their hands over their ears and chant lalalallala.

I give up. Returning to my usual MN haunts under my usual MN name.

But if I have encouraged even one person here (waves) to look further into the matter, and to add vitamin D to their diet (it really is dirt cheap) I consider my work here done. Carry on. Wishing you all health and happiness.

Viviennemary · 17/02/2021 10:15

Why are you shielding if you have no health concerns. Why are you bring offered the vaccine. Just defer it until your group is due to be vaccinated if you can't decide.

TrufflyPig · 17/02/2021 10:16

There's loads of evidence beyond what I've posted here but some people put their hands over their ears and chant lalalallala.

Funny, I can't seem to find anything reputable. Care to share?

alreadytaken · 17/02/2021 10:25

Op, just in case you decide to return ... stillbirths and premature births are up during the pandemic. The exact reasons for that are unclear but it is at least possible that it is directly due to covid, even if women of that age are often asymptomatic and dont know they've had it.

Pregnant women are more at risk from covid than other women of the same age. I dont know exactly how many turn up in ICU but there are certainly some who have an emergency caesarean before being intubated. If actually pregnant the decision might be a bit harder but if not pregnant yet go for it.

As for vitamin D - it isnt a substitute for vaccination because you cannot be sure without testing how much you are absorbing and because some people do still die even after supplementation. There are risks to excessive supplementation but almost everyone should be on more than the NICE recommendation and it would be wise to double the dose at the first signs of covid infection. NICE need more clinical trials but there are enough studies to make it a wise precaution. If you have kidney damage consult your gp before supplementing. 1,000 IU (25 mcg) of vitamin D is a good dose - low risk and everything to gain.

CaraDuneRedux · 17/02/2021 12:12

Op, just in case you decide to return ... stillbirths and premature births are up during the pandemic. The exact reasons for that are unclear but it is at least possible that it is directly due to covid, even if women of that age are often asymptomatic and dont know they've had it.

I suspect it is a combination of covid acting directly plus knock on consequences of women avoiding health care settings due to fear of catching covid, plus medical resources being over-stretched when they do present.

Also recent case reported from Israel where covid appears to have crossed the placenta leading to stillbirth.

Also indications that suffering from covid badly affects male fertility (mechanism appears to be inflammation due to the immune response - hits sperm count, mobility and overall quality).

Get the vaccine. It's a no-brainer.

Chewingle · 17/02/2021 12:14

* Op, just in case you decide to return ... stillbirths and premature births are up during the pandemic. *

It seems dreadfully irresponsible to post such a comment without providing a source

Chewingle · 17/02/2021 12:16

Because even just 2 mins of research reveals

with data limited to a case series of 3 stillbirth deliveries in pregnant women with confirmed severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection3 and a single London hospital reporting a higher rate of stillbirth deliveries during the pandemic period compared with a prepandemic period.**

jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2774088

Grannycurls · 17/02/2021 16:18

@TrufflyPig

So, in spite of the clear results, you want to wait, put in place a massive official trial involving all kinds of paperwork which would take several months even to be "registered as a clinical trial"? Really?

Yes. That's how science works, you can't make cost based choices for the NHS based on flimsy evidence.

What a ridiculous reply. This is not some new, untested medicine. It's a vitamin that has been historically used since I don;t know when, which we know is harmless even in high amounts (unless you really go overboard with like 100000 iu), is dirt cheap, (2 p a capsule), readily available without a prescription and which it is known to be vital for our health. Even if there's the slightest hint that it could save lives, any doctor worthy of the name would be rushing to give it to their patients during a health crisis like this.

This is just being deliberately obtuse, sorry.
I did a vitamin d home test today and I am well supplied. Do you have your test results? Do you know if you and your loved ones are deficient? Are you going to find out? Or doesn't it matter?

There's absolutely no reason why we should not all be aware of the benefits and putting ourselves on at least 1000iu a day. We don't have to be obeisant to NICE. But I guess some people can't take a step on their own without waiting for government approval.

Grannycurls · 17/02/2021 16:20

@TrufflyPig

There's loads of evidence beyond what I've posted here but some people put their hands over their ears and chant lalalallala.

Funny, I can't seem to find anything reputable. Care to share?

No. I did see a website several weeks ago which listed at least ten different trials, all with positive outcomes. Your snarky challenge does not incline me to go searching for it. If you were truly interested you'd do your own research. But you're not, are you.
CovoidOfAllHumanity · 17/02/2021 16:40

I do find it genuinely ironic that you say no-one should seek to persuade anyone else to have a COVID vaccine despite extensive trials having been done as it's such a personal matter

And yet here you are seeking to persuade everyone to take Vit D in quite a strident tone despite much less evidence of benefit

Do you really not think your position is inconsistent at all??

For vitamin D we should ignore NICE and plough ahead with high doses but for vaccines we should be very careful and await years of data before we can be sure we will not be harmed.

It's because one is 'natural' and one
isn't I suppose.

TrufflyPig · 17/02/2021 16:41

As I suspected, completely baseless claims with a lot of unsubstantiated waffle in between.

There are a handful of trials in progress with no conclusions drawn yet but certainly not 10 high quality ones with positive outcomes. It may not be a new medicine but to obtain a licence for a new indication you need to do clinical trials.

You can keep saying you believe it's beneficial until the cows come home but the evidence is not available yet and without such evidence NICE will not approve therapy.

Grannycurls · 17/02/2021 17:13

@TrufflyPig, and all,
here's quite an informative article in the Guardian which in my view accurately mentions studies made and why it is imperative to act now, and how UK authorities have dragged their feet. I hope you'll read it in full.
www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/jan/10/does-vitamin-d-combat-covid

@CovoidOfAllHumanity
I do find it genuinely ironic that you say no-one should seek to persuade anyone else to have a COVID vaccine despite extensive trials having been done as it's such a personal matter

And yet here you are seeking to persuade everyone to take Vit D in quite a strident tone despite much less evidence of benefit

Do you really not think your position is inconsistent at all??

Not at all. It's one thing to advise others to take, or not take, a vaccine that once it's in your body, it's in, and neither you or anybody else knows the long term side-effects; or maybe there are none, and it's fine. So I reserve an opinion on that. That's been my stance from the beginning.

As far as vitamin d is concerned, the benefits are manifold and all health professionals know it. It is vital. Please read the artcle I posted above if you don't believe me.

Right now there's been a new and massive push for us all to take it, and about the benefits. It's practically going viral, even if MN posters are a little behind! I have absolutely no qualms about telling every single person: take vitamin d!

The worst it can do is no harm, and it could save your life. Did you know that even the fabled D Fauci takes a 4000iu dose daily?

I promise I won't ever come back here to say "I told you so!"

I am sorry for derailing yet another thread, but as OP has disappeared anyway I think it's OK this time. No, I won't start a custom vitamin d thread. Not until I notice real interest and even excitement among MNers. Till then I'll just pop in and out of threads and mention it.

Funny though that a single mention just popped in by-the-by, invariably leads to a massive discussion...

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