Testing vaccine on 6 year olds onwards ?!

[elephantsneverforgot]

Just wondering what the view is on this? I for one will not be allowing it

Earlier thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4164057-To-ask-if-you-would-put-child-forward-for-the-vaccine-trial

I imagine trials will be full of children who need the vaccine before they go into hospital so they may not even need to be opened to the general public.

@GrumpyHoonMain

I imagine trials will be full of children who need the vaccine before they go into hospital so they may not even need to be opened to the general public.

Doubt it - they say they're only recruiting volunteers with 'no significant medical history' and gave a fuller list of exclusions in the various participant information sheets.

They're starting with over 12s, and only moving to younger volunteers once it's clear that's unproblematic

Absolutely not, I am unable to see how they will get ethical approval on a child considering they cannot 100% assure that the child will not suffer due to this. It's a difficult one as I understand why we need to research this.

@SakuraEdenSwan1

Absolutely not, I am unable to see how they will get ethical approval on a child considering they cannot 100% assure that the child will not suffer due to this. It's a difficult one as I understand why we need to research this.

How do you think current medicines for children are approved?

@SakuraEdenSwan1

Absolutely not, I am unable to see how they will get ethical approval on a child considering they cannot 100% assure that the child will not suffer due to this. It's a difficult one as I understand why we need to research this.

The same way they design any paediatric clinical trial.

I looked into this as I was considering seeing if my kids would be up for it. Unfortunately we don't live near any of the centres.
My main concern would be the fact that they don't like needles! Ultimately it would have been their choice.
I think that thankfully they will find plenty of kids/parents happy to sign up!
This is a positive step. So many kids are cev or live with family members who are cev.

DD is considering whether to volunteer

But if they add cohabitants of CEV to group 6 (JCVI have been deliberating in that since November, and group 6 is a 16+ group) then she would get the jab, not an injection on a trial blinded for a year.

She’s going to sleep on it.

I’m very proud of her

@SakuraEdenSwan1

Absolutely not, I am unable to see how they will get ethical approval on a child considering they cannot 100% assure that the child will not suffer due to this. It's a difficult one as I understand why we need to research this.

Seriously, how do you think other paediatric medicines are trialled and approved?!

I'm intrigued to know how medicines are "converted" for use in children. Is it just a case of figuring out how much of the "active ingredient" is needed for a child dosage or is it the whole formula that would also need to be changed?

@InterfectoremVulpes

I'm intrigued to know how medicines are "converted" for use in children. Is it just a case of figuring out how much of the "active ingredient" is needed for a child dosage or is it the whole formula that would also need to be changed?

It depends on the chemistry of the drug and age of child. Volume of distribution, renal and liver function differs in children at different ages. Huge amount of different factors need to be considered.

@InterfectoremVulpes

I'm intrigued to know how medicines are "converted" for use in children. Is it just a case of figuring out how much of the "active ingredient" is needed for a child dosage or is it the whole formula that would also need to be changed?

Generally it tends to just be dosage but this is a lot more relevant for drugs rather than vaccines.

Thanks. Thought there had to be more to it than "just give them less"

They started it first by being rude

Are you six?

I doubt there’s been a drug where so many millions of adults have been exposed in such a short space of time prior to giving it to children. As mentioned above there is specific paediatric legislation to be followed when developing drugs for children. If you don’t have an approved plan to develop it in children, your drug won’t get approved for adults unless you obtain a waiver. I think it’s great news that they are moving ahead with this trial.

It's a tough one as a parent. I understand why people nay not choose to join the trials and that's absolutely fine. I am very grateful and thankful for those that do partake. I am not I am not shocked that vaccibes etc need to be tested on kids. Of course they do.

I'm assuming the MMR, tetanus, polio, diphtheria, Men C, HPV etc were also all tested on some children in a trial.

And Thank you so much for that. Thankfully my children who are now adults had all of these immunisations.

I don't understand the uproar about this especially from.parebts that have happily had their kids vaccinated against the usual childhood diseases. How do they think that happened? No one's going to insist you put forward your child fir trials, so there's no drama if it's not for you. Most of the uproar is people looking for drama. But after weeks of lockdown I imagine there are lots of bored people looking for something dramatic to cling on to.

My rational brain says there would be no issue in putting my child forward for such a trial. I believe in science and the work that is being done.

However, when it comes to my baby I’m not always rational! So I wouldn’t volunteer him!

Disclaimer: he is only three so this is irrelevant as he is too young anyway

This is a real head/heart conflict for me, whilst I of course understand the trials are needed, I just couldn't see me signing on the dotted line below the bit where it tells you all the risks!

It's important to note that they are primarily testing to understand efficacy in children. There is a good evidence base that it will be safe in this age group, but it's unknown if it will provoke a decent enough immune response to be worthwhile rolling out in the under 16s.

"Building on previous trials of the vaccine, which have shown that it is safe, produces strong immune system responses and has high efficacy in all adults, this trial will assess if children and young adults aged 6-17 years make a good immune response with the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine.

This new trial, a single-blind, randomised phase II trial, will enrol 300 volunteers, with up to 240 of these volunteers receiving the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine and the remainder a control meningitis vaccine, which has been shown to be safe in children but is expected to produce similar reactions, such as a sore arm."

@InsaneLockdowner

It's a tough one as a parent. I understand why people nay not choose to join the trials and that's absolutely fine. I am very grateful and thankful for those that do partake. I am not I am not shocked that vaccibes etc need to be tested on kids. Of course they do.

I'm assuming the MMR, tetanus, polio, diphtheria, Men C, HPV etc were also all tested on some children in a trial.

And Thank you so much for that. Thankfully my children who are now adults had all of these immunisations.

I don't understand the uproar about this especially from.parebts that have happily had their kids vaccinated against the usual childhood diseases. How do they think that happened? No one's going to insist you put forward your child fir trials, so there's no drama if it's not for you. Most of the uproar is people looking for drama. But after weeks of lockdown I imagine there are lots of bored people looking for something dramatic to cling on to.

Surely the difference is that those vaccines are against diseases which can be serious for children. I’d have to think twice about consenting for another person to be included in a trial for a disease which was virtually no risk to them and they couldn’t consent to themselves. Some older children will be able to consent, some there will be a benefit to themselves because of personal or family vulnerability. It’s not the same situation as taking a licensed medicine or deciding for yourself that you’d like to be in a clinical trial

I agree there doesn’t need to be any drama about it though, it’s not compulsory!

Surely the difference is that those vaccines are against diseases which can be serious for children. I’d have to think twice about consenting for another person to be included in a trial for a disease which was virtually no risk to them and they couldn’t consent to themselves.

Small children don't tend to suffer badly from flu but they still get the flu vaccine now.

@titchy

Surely the difference is that those vaccines are against diseases which can be serious for children. I’d have to think twice about consenting for another person to be included in a trial for a disease which was virtually no risk to them and they couldn’t consent to themselves.

Small children don't tend to suffer badly from flu but they still get the flu vaccine now.

But flu vaccine is licensed for children and has very few side effects as far as vaccines go. The nasal one was specially developed for children, not even any needles involved. And flu vaccine had been around for many years, had been given to vulnerable children for many years before it was given to healthy children. It’s not comparable.

@SakuraEdenSwan1

Absolutely not, I am unable to see how they will get ethical approval on a child considering they cannot 100% assure that the child will not suffer due to this. It's a difficult one as I understand why we need to research this.

The trial is recruiting. It already has authorisation.

But flu vaccine is licensed for children and has very few side effects as far as vaccines go. The nasal one was specially developed for children, not even any needles involved. And flu vaccine had been around for many years, had been given to vulnerable children for many years before it was given to healthy children. It’s not comparable.

Of course it's comparable. There was a point at which the flu vaccine wasn't licenced for children. Worldwide tens of millions have had the cv jab - if there was an issue we'd know about it now. And don't forget the flu vaccine gets modified each year.