Return to School Conditions

[Bing12]

I see a lot about when should schools open in the press, but very little about what should be in place before they reopen. Wondering what the feeling is - I imagine it’s a whole spectrum 🤷‍♀️

@RedskyBynight

I agree blended learning would be preferable in secondary schools.

In primary schools hopefully they can make more use of the outdoors, now the weather is starting to get better.

I'm extremely worried that there will be no changes at all (other than the twice weekly teacher lateral flow testing) and everyone will just be chucked back into the classrooms and left to cross their fingers.

Maybe when the weather does actually get better.

Hasn't been above freezing this week here with snow on the ground.

My preference would be to wait until after Easter hols because of this.

Also if we go back on the 8th March it's only 3 weeks until we break up anyway, although I guess that could also be a positive if the numbers haven't come down enough.

I would also like a rota system of half in on a Monday and Tuesday close on a weds for cleaning and ppa and then other half in on Thurs/Friday.

That won't happen though because childcare is more important than education.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Haven’t Italy and Israel reopened and then had to close again as the Kent variant spread like wildfire?

It was in the BMJ. Let me find it

The BMJ article talks about one Italian village. Oddly, that area around Brescia isn't in one of the red zones.(schools automatically closed) Italian high schools in most areas (orange and yellow) are now open for up to 50-75% capacity. They opened in September but then closed when the second wave hit. Primary and middle have been open since September.

Just checked the Italian press, the mayor closed the schools in Corzano for a week (leading up to today) they're opening again next week as the situation has now improved. The press says there's no way the English variant has arrived recently, so it must have been quietly circulating for a while.

@Kitcat122

Well my KW bubble is upto 23 children so nearly business as usual for me. Following from above most of our outbreaks have been children attending school when a family member is either positive or awaiting test with symptoms, it makes me beyond angry how selfish some people are. But I'm not sure what the answer is. Blended in secondaries. Even if my dc got one day a week that would be great for now. Primary we will be thrown back in with "Schools are safe"

Same here...with the HUGE list of who now qualifies for a KW place, and only one parent needing to hold that job title to take up the place, vulnerable children and 'children who don't have access to their own technology or a quiet place to study', my 'bubble' in Year 2 is 24 children 🤷‍♀️ Hardly a bubble, and my workload is doubled as I'm also teaching live remotely three times a day, which requires separate planning, as what we do IN school can't easily be replicated at home with our little ones. I think it's probably different for older students who are more independent (although it might not be?)

government backing of children who refuse to comply being sent home for the duration of the pandemic (those that deliberately cough shouting 'corona' or spit at others) what the hell is wrong with you, these are children and this is not North Korea. You would deny a 9 year old boy an education for messing around, Get a grip!

None of the proposed measures are different, all you are talking about is greater enforcement, which I’m not necessarily against although I greatly object to masks being worn in classes.

Fact is either the vaccine lessons the symptoms, we all learn to live with this virus or the vaccine doesn’t work and we have to live with this virus.

Primary back with a few extra measures such as masks and lateral flow testing for staff as the infants here in wales

Secondary rota - possibly from 8 March and full from Easter.

Children being back is really important for their well-being - it's not for "childcare"

@HauntedPencil
Exactly so a little for everyone rather than selected year groups would benefit more of them.

52twinkletoesimnot

@HauntedPencil
Exactly so a little for everyone rather than selected year groups would benefit more of them.

Yes would love this but KW bubbles so big it's not possible in primary.

Perhaps we need to restrict KW bubbles back to what they were in order to make it work.

I think it's highly unlikely that primaries will be part time do you? In March? Maybe for a week or so but not for long

Agree in getting them all to have a bit of time - but that much more likely for secondary?

@LilyPond2

For a start I think it should be made a criminal offence for parents to send a child into school if the child should be isolating.

At my school we have had three cases of bubble closures when the child was sent in whilst awaiting a test result. Absolute selfish behaviour on the part of the parents.

We have to remember that the children in school now - keyworker and vulnerable - are in under exactly the same conditions as from September: no limit to class size, no requirement for distancing, no face masks to be worn in class.

The only thing that is changed at all is number of children in the building, and it depends on how the school has arranged keyworker bubbles as to whether that has an effect on actual class size or not. It would be perfectly within current guidelines for 30+ unmasked children and 2 unmasked staff to be in a class together for the 6 hours of the school day through the peak of this wave, just as before Christmas.

Bearing that in mind, I cannot see any reason why the DfE and the rest of the Government would put anything new in place in school when everyone returns. When primary children return, they will return to rammed classrooms, no distancing, no funding for addtional sanitiser or cleaning, no masks. The staff will have twice weekly self-administered LFTs. Not only has this been shown to be the least accurate way of using them, their use in 'preventing' Covid is as successful as the use of pregnancy tests is in preventing pregnancy.

government backing of children who refuse to comply being sent home for the duration of the pandemic (those that deliberately cough shouting 'corona' or spit at others)
what the hell is wrong with you, these are children and this is not North Korea. You would deny a 9 year old boy an education for messing around, Get a grip!

How the actual fuck is spitting at someone an acceptable level of ‘messing around’? Ever?!

@Beforethetakingoftoastandtea

government backing of children who refuse to comply being sent home for the duration of the pandemic (those that deliberately cough shouting 'corona' or spit at others) what the hell is wrong with you, these are children and this is not North Korea. You would deny a 9 year old boy an education for messing around, Get a grip!

How the actual fuck is spitting at someone an acceptable level of ‘messing around’? Ever?!

I believe the police count spitting (at an officer, presumably also at people in general) as assault.

Of course spitting isn’t acceptable- guess what children can be gross doesnt make them unworthy of an education or primed for a prison cell.

@Chosennone

Schools can, and should open, but with a much higher level of mitigation. It is being done in other countries and we should stop with the all or nothing approach!.

Exactly! I just don’t understand why we seem to be gearing up to do the same again. As a PP said the massive reduction in cases (despite a sad to see increase in the nursery age group) proves that things have to change. It needs to be talked about especially now the virus has started to mutate and long covid shown itself to be a real, and not rare enough concern.

Sure, kids can be gross, reckless & selfish. Or they might have additional needs & struggle to manage the impulse to spit at other people.

& given that spitting constitutes assaulting others, they can expect the needs of other dc to attend school without being assaulted by being gobbed at to be taken into account.

That might mean a spitting child being temporarily being excluded from the classroom/school or having additional one-to-one support to manage their behaviour.

If a 9yo genuinely couldn't be brought to understand that spitting at others wasn't acceptable, that indicates a need for extra support for their behaviour.

In a pandemic where we're all trying to figure out how to keep all students safe from infection with an illness that they can & do transmit within the community, it's probably safest not to have 9yo spitters going on their merry way spitting at their peers.

@HazeyJaneII

In my ideal world there would be a vaccine available for medically vulnerable children (ds) (I am fully aware this is pie in the sky) There would be consequences for parents sending in children with symptoms/when they should be isolating There would be the option of blended learning to keep numbers down Teachers/staff would be vaccinated

In the real world it will be a case of all in, no social distancing, little ventilation, poor hygiene, a full classroom of children and adults....same as it ever was.

I hope you’re in a position to resist and refuse if that’s what you want to do. The bullying needs to stop.

DBML - why only open windows between lessons (there's hardly any "between" lessons anyway in secondary - usually there are at least two lessons back to back with different groups of 30 in the room and often 3 back to back lessons...)?

We have them as wide open as they will go all day every day. Nobody is shutting my classroom windows for love nor money, seeing as it is the only thing I have to protect me.

I would prefer rotas to allow for half classes sizes and smaller bubbles.
I feel this could make them safer and more sustainable with less mixing. I fear if we don't do that we will the bubbles popping scenario or potentially more widespread closures again.
For those who don't care because children aren't at risk and are just wanting back to normal as usual....schools don't just involve children , there is staff to think about and in our large primary we have had a lot of staff off and some are now off long term as a result of covid.
Also you don't know the circumstances of every child and family member in your child's class.
My own children haven't returned to school since March 20 due to a vulnerable child who will be unable to return anytime soon, however it would be preferable if siblings could attend.
Covid spreading around a classroom will lead to children carrying it home to vulnerable people in their households who aren't able to be vaccinated yet. So mitigating against it spreading in the first place would be ideal to make it safer for many families not just the ones who are happy enough because they will be OK. Every child has a right to education not just the ones who are healthy themselves and have healthy family members !

@gallbladderpain

I would prefer rotas to allow for half classes sizes and smaller bubbles. I feel this could make them safer and more sustainable with less mixing. I fear if we don't do that we will the bubbles popping scenario or potentially more widespread closures again. For those who don't care because children aren't at risk and are just wanting back to normal as usual....schools don't just involve children , there is staff to think about and in our large primary we have had a lot of staff off and some are now off long term as a result of covid. Also you don't know the circumstances of every child and family member in your child's class. My own children haven't returned to school since March 20 due to a vulnerable child who will be unable to return anytime soon, however it would be preferable if siblings could attend. Covid spreading around a classroom will lead to children carrying it home to vulnerable people in their households who aren't able to be vaccinated yet. So mitigating against it spreading in the first place would be ideal to make it safer for many families not just the ones who are happy enough because they will be OK. Every child has a right to education not just the ones who are healthy themselves and have healthy family members !

So well put! We will be so close to having numbers where track and trace could be effective and with border controls and a final push re locking down we could be living a life like NZ and Australia. Throwing it all away and having this in/out bubbles open/closed must be better from a 💰 point of view 🤷‍♀️

Looks like we are set to throw it away, without even trying to make classrooms safer.

@LilyPond2

For a start I think it should be made a criminal offence for parents to send a child into school if the child should be isolating.

Totally agree with this.

Forget fines for keeping them home - until September that should be parental choice.

But sending them in whilst infectious and waiting for results

@HalfPastThree

Is there any new evidence that transmission has changed in children? Is there any new evidence that schools are a source of outbreaks in the community?

If not, same rules as the autumn, gradually relaxed as more people are vaccinated.

There was evidence in December showing children school aged are 2-7 times more likely to be index case in a household.

And on the 5th Feb (over 5 months after the meeting!) minutes of warnings of increased spread due to schools, issued by SAGE, we’re finally made public. 😡🤷‍♀️

Agree 100% @itsgettingwierd