Tories Putting Wealth before Health- Independent SAGE

[TreePurple]

Dr Zubaida Haque from Independent Sage has been saying today that the government is refusing to expand the list of COVID systems for financial and political reasons.

I.e. that they'd have to pay more people to stay off work isolating and also that lockdown would have to be in place for longer because more cases would be found.

Independent SAGE have of course been arguing that lockdown needs to stay in place until COVID is eliminated.

Is this just more politicking from independent SAGE or a reflection of a far-right Tory government prioritising the economy over lives?

twitter.com/independentsage/status/1360278040853549061

Independent SAGE come across as bunch of experts who are disgruntled that they were not invited to SAGE proper. Whatever the Government/SAGE say they say it's wrong or not enough etc etc

I'm not a tory voter but they've shut down large sections of the economy more than once in this pandemic. I don't think it's right to say the approach has generally been 'wealth before health'

There also comes a time when wealth does have to be prioritised a bit as we need money to pay for all this and to keep the NHS going. No money, no NHS. Independent Sage, and Sage too only think of health and not anything else when in reality it’s more complicated.

The economy IS lives, whether we like it or not. If not enough people are working, we can't pay for the NHS.

There needs to be a balance. It's too late now to lock down until Covid is eliminated. We can't achieve that. We need to be realistic about what we can achieve.

I'm getting sick of hearing from these 'experts' from SAGE and Independent SAGE who keep popping up on news programs, are they getting financial incentives from such news programs as a lot of them can't keep away.

@Againstmachine

I'm getting sick of hearing from these 'experts' from SAGE and Independent SAGE who keep popping up on news programs, are they getting financial incentives from such news programs as a lot of them can't keep away.

Me too it causes nothing but anxiety

systems or symptoms?
anyway I feel like testing is happening constantly everywhere.
LFT coming to someone or somewhere near you, very soon.

How do we pay for good public services except by having a bonny economy that generates lots of tax revenue? Does anyone know?

It’s true.

Independent SAGE have of course been arguing that lockdown needs to stay in place until COVID is eliminated

In which case we’ll be locked down for the rest of our lives. Covid is here to stay, just like flu.

@Waxonwaxoff0

The economy IS lives, whether we like it or not. If not enough people are working, we can't pay for the NHS.

There needs to be a balance. It's too late now to lock down until Covid is eliminated. We can't achieve that. We need to be realistic about what we can achieve.

This!

At this point in the pandemic with the variants and vaccine rollout health has to be prioritized. We have had nearly a year of them bottling out of putting health first to try to keep the economy going and it has led to repeated half hearted lockdowns and worsening economy. There is no economy if healthcare systems collapse. We need to prioritise minimising the virus levels in the community or it will become uncontrollable within the unvaccinated very quickly after hasty reopening.

Independent SAGE are really irritating. I am the biggest hater of the Tories, good grief, I despise them but I do appreciate any govmt has to consider the economy. It’s all tied together. Health isn’t just not dying. It’s life health. People are losing jobs at frightening rate. Most people don’t want to be wealthy at this point, they just want stable jobs, a stable income, a roof over their heads & to be able to feed their children. Peoples mental health & their well-being matters as much as keeping people from dying.

So there is a balance to find. The govmt have been idiots 99.9% of this pandemic but I disagree that it’s health or wealth. It’s not. It’s a juggle. You might not think a pub being open is important but my best friend owns a pub. It’s her income. It’s the food that feeds her young children. It’s not black & white. Any any government would have had this dilemma.

Health is wealth.

If the last year has taught us anything it's that it's the countries who controlled the virus who have the least damaged economies.

Which is why the PM needs to ignore Rishi Sunak, Steve Baker and Charles Walker and do it properly this time so this is the last lockdown we ever have to have.

Do we want a few extra weeks now or another year of the Hokey Cokey?

There was a point last summer where we were very close to elimination, but we did Eat Out To Help Out instead, and created a couple of new variants, killed 50,000 people and ground the country to a halt for another 6 months.

Are we grown ups or tantrumming toddlers who want what we want, and we want it NOW?

I ignore whatever independent sage says now.

@PrincessNutNuts

Health is wealth.

If the last year has taught us anything it's that it's the countries who controlled the virus who have the least damaged economies.

Which is why the PM needs to ignore Rishi Sunak, Steve Baker and Charles Walker and do it properly this time so this is the last lockdown we ever have to have.

Do we want a few extra weeks now or another year of the Hokey Cokey?

There was a point last summer where we were very close to elimination, but we did Eat Out To Help Out instead, and created a couple of new variants, killed 50,000 people and ground the country to a halt for another 6 months.

Are we grown ups or tantrumming toddlers who want what we want, and we want it NOW?

You can't control it now. It's endemic.

The countries that eliminated Covid are the ones that locked down hard at the start and had low infection rates. We will not be able to eliminate Covid in the same way at this stage, infection rates are too high and it's too widespread.

The economy would be much better off if we don’t go into another open/lockdown cycle. So it’s not health or wealth. We must get numbers down to a level where proper track & trace works with hefty fines for not self isolating and risking other people’s lives, and where proper financial support is given for those who are self isolating. When numbers are very low, we can open up properly and stay open

People say it’s too late to get numbers down. Definitely not. Ireland just did, as did others from high numbers. We did last May. Look at July/August - we were almost there, but then got gung-ho and opened everything at once without proper track and trace in place .

We were pretty close last Summer @Waxonwaxoff0

At this point I'd rather give it a good try than be back in Lockdown a month after we came out again.

Clever progoganda - given a lot of us are no fan of the government. Despite this, I admire Charles Walker et al speaking out against lockdowns and am suspicious of people who keep saying that we need harsher and longer lockdowns to 'preserve health'.

I fell for all the 'Boristhebutcher' hashtags in spring 2020. I will not fall for similar scaremongering again. I am more scared of how many people keep trying to convince others that we need to keep longer down for longer.

Independent Sage can get Stuffed.

That said, everyone has the right to their opinion. Just.

@Pepperama

People say it’s too late to get numbers down. Definitely not. Ireland just did, as did others from high numbers. We did last May. Look at July/August - we were almost there, but then got gung-ho and opened everything at once without proper track and trace in place .

Of course we can get numbers down.

What we can't do is keep lockdown in place until we have Zero Covid, as independent sage are suggesting.

@PrincessNutNuts

We were pretty close last Summer *@Waxonwaxoff0*

At this point I'd rather give it a good try than be back in Lockdown a month after we came out again.

Last summer we didn't have the mutations that we have now.

I'm not saying we can't reduce numbers, we can. But we cannot eliminate Covid completely.

I remember being concerned last year because Covid was primarily a respiratory disease with the risk of the cytokine storm. I have no patience with this new push to expand the symptom list to include everything including runny noses, sore throats (hay fever season anyone?) and anything else that might demand that more people be tested (unnecessarily).

My opinion - which I get could be unpopular with genuine posters on this board and also with the AI Covid fear bots who smother these threads like bees around a honeypot - is that aiming for zero covid is dangerous and stupid. We'll have to agree to disagree. I've already accepted defeat but I won't be convinced that this is the sensible and humane approach no matter what the (unscientific) guilt tripping.

@Againstmachine

I'm getting sick of hearing from these 'experts' from SAGE and Independent SAGE who keep popping up on news programs, are they getting financial incentives from such news programs as a lot of them can't keep away.

Oh yes I agree. Let's stop hearing from experts and have a little more input from ignorant numpties

NutNuts, give it a good try? I think we've all been trying for nearly a year. How much more should we 'try'? It will never be enough ... lockdowns, masks, social distancing, vaccines, more masks, more vaccines, quarantine, keep social distancing, keep a lot of restrictions, top up vaccines, variants, mutants, different vaccines, keep masks, keep more restrictions ... come on, now. Life has to begin again.

This is just one virus. What happens if there is a bad flu year? Zika? Natural disaster? etc. And God forbid, bad reactions to the vaccines (eg pathogenic priming so that people react badly in a few months time to the other coronaviruses in the wild etc). If we can't open up soon - with common sense, hygiene and curtesy, I respectfully suggest that we should all be more worried about more than covid-19.

Again, no fan of the Tories - far, far from it - but of course I accept they do need to juggle the economy and Covid. Its hard to see how zero Covid is possible and to keep everything locked down indefinitely is to sweep away whole sectors of the economy - all of those are someone's business, someone's job, a service that means a lot to those who use it. Poverty and stress also kill with physical and mental illness. This is surely going to end in a need to balance what we accept from the illness and what we accept with restrictions