The worst bit about home learning.....

[beckypv]

I’m generally a person who ‘gets on with things’. I normally put a positive spin on things, and like to follow the roles. I’m lucky to me furloughed and able to support my kids with their home learning..... but I am coming across the first thing that has really stressed me out in this whole pandemic. It is realising that my year 7 boy just doesn’t give a s**t. The standard of work he produces is awful. He doesn’t always follow all the instructions, can’t be bothered to correct mistakes even though he sees them, doesn’t care about presentation, spelling is terrible .... no effort to do it the best he can. Honestly, it’s hurting me. If I help him, and encourage him to do it properly, he just moans that his friends don’t have a mum sitting over him checking up on him and ‘not everything has to be perfect’. He doesn’t seem to understand that hard work and doing your best is one of the foundations of a good life as an adult. It worries me that there is no way he’s going to do well in future exams if he ‘can’t be bothered’ most of the time. So then where does that leave his future?
How do you encourage a child to do better? He never gets feedback on his spelling or presentation from school. And rarely about content .... so why would he ever bother to try harder?
Sorry for the moan.....

How is he when he's actually in school? This situation is so hard for them, my Y8 is similar, doesnt seem to care at home but when at school always gets good reports / effort grades and so on. I think staying motivated when you aren't physically there with your teachers and friends is really hard for some children. Year 7s haven't had a chance to settle in to secondary school life and missed loads of their final primary year so it's not that surprising. My DS struggled a lot in Y7 in lockdown but as soon as he was back in Y8 in September he did really well and made loads of progress. I'm gutted this has happened again and he's finding it hard again but I'm sure when he gets back to school it will be fine. I'd imagine yours will be too, especially as this seems to be something you haven't seen from him before. Y7 and Y8 do have time, it's a few years to GCSEs still!

Mine is similar. However he’s seven. He’s also not a people pleaser like I was as a girl abd I’m glad about that. It got me precisely nowhere.

I found saying "if you want a low paid boring job carry on" then go into a lecture about how to take every opportunity school offers, you will be at work a long time you at least want enough salary to go on a couple of holidays each year, some of your peers will be working hard and it is them you will be living along side, really going to school and learning new stuff daily isn't really that bad. And on and on I lecture. The list is endless.

I have also pointed out that their dad and I provide a warm home, full of everything they need and if they are lazy and don't reach their potential it's not our fault.

Eldest wants to go to Oxford, ok fine, similar lecture with "you won't get to Oxford watching YouTube" lecture follows.

I mean I say lecture it's more a "realisation conversation" for want of sounding like Gwyneth Paltrow!

Seems to work.

At the moment because life is weird, we do let them pick a topic they are interested in and chat, research that, tends to be chemistry, history or politics, which doesn't interest me personally but holds their interest.

I don't really know what my Year 7 child does. She uploads her own work and I trust the teachers will deal with anything not up to standard.

I ask her about it at dinner and have some interesting discussions about her work but can't imagine watching over her.

Right now I imagine won't be their best work. I'd just hope the content is being covered . I am actively helping my Year 4 and as long as she knows the content I'm not too worried about her answers being a bit messy unless its a poster she's handing in. It will go back to normal when they're back in class.

I suspect if he were handing work in to his teacher he would be more motivated, I certainly can’t get the usual standard of work from my children.
I think the best way to teach the motivation you are talking about is through hobbies. My son does karate and they have grading regularly, with a different colour belt for each level. It really rewards the effort they have put in and makes them feel proud of the level they have reached. Does your child have an interest you could encourage where it would be easy to see the way their effort links to an achievement?

Does he never get feedback on presentation and spelling, or just since lockdown?
I think there is merit in “reading the room” and not putting in more effort than is required (I’m coming from a position of being a massive over thinker, perfectionist and hard worker and I’m not sure it’s entirely healthy)

If he’s not going to do better on his own you could step up and be the hard ass here and insist on better presentation. Only you can judge the value of that battle.

It's hard because your his mum and so he isn't going to be how he is with you in school. My DD (5)does the same and it messes with my head. At work, I'm an SEN teacher, and I've long since specialised in working with children with severe behaviours, can I get my kid to do her work? No can I fuck, she's laid on the floor screaming tantrumming, hitting me, refusing to do anything, won't cross something out won't rub it out won't listen to a word...
But Im her Mum, I'm not her teacher, we're not in school (her school wouldn't let her in despite having 1x key worker parent they said only 2 parents ).... She is angry because she isn't in school doing that work with her friends around her ... So yes it upsets me, and yes I think to myself how the hell have I dedicated my career to being able to work with children with really complex requirements but I can't get my own flesh and blood to just do a few maths questions......but the fact is... This isn't the natural order of things for a child of any age. (unless you home school by choice but then that wasn't dumped on you overnight in a pandemic totally against your will - you would have decided that was the best for you and your family)....
When it happens I put the work away now and we do something else, I figure yes there will be days when she does something and that's great & it does happen , some days she does all her work and is happy and it's all good ..but then on the days she doesn't I have long since decided (and told her teacher who agrees with me ) it's not worth driving a wedge in my and her relationship... It's not really worth the battle.

I'm not saying you should ditch the work because your son is older than my 5 year old so I suppose it's more consequential if he does the work...but what I will say is no I don't think he doesn't give a shit, I don't think his work is actually awful - I think the situation is though and he is perhaps angry at that and the way he is taking it out is on th most obvious thing that he can find which is refusing to engage with the work that this situation has forced upon him.

I don't know how you can engage your son because I mean I can't do it with my own kids and the school doesn't seem supportive either , but I think you MUST be kind to yourself first and foremost in this, and it's bloody hard ... but none of this is your fault, you're not doing anything wrong you're doing your best in a bad situation ... Maybe sit down and have a chat with him and see if he can recognise what the problem is ....if he is feeling angry / upset at the situation. I don't know I csnt be more help but you're not alone and this isn't anything you're doing . Not at all

I'm glad mine are adults as would hate this home learning. I decided when mine were at primary to leave them to it with all homework apart from reading and spelling. Just asked if they had done their homework and took their answer. Told teachers at parents evening that it was too stressful keeping tabs, bribing and cajoling so I opted out. I think I would do the same here. If they want to do it they will. If not, a year 7 understands the outcome.

Thanks for all your comments. I’m not sure the lack of ‘people pleasing’ and doing his best is attributed to lockdown learning. Sadly I think it was there before but now it’s me seeing all his work, it’s right there in front of me! He submits all his work (5 lessons a day) online but doesn’t get much feedback. I guess I feel that this is how it also is at school, I’m not sure if the teachers individually push the children if they are not right at the bottom/top, and that makes me a bit sad. I was a nerd, always wanted to be the best, impress etc. so it’s hard to adjust to a different mindset. I know he can do much better.... but if it’s not picked up by anyone, what’s going to make him change. We are definitely going down the realism route.... taking about future job/house/fun consequences but quite often he just thinks up examples of people who have managed!!! He has a good life at the moment, so trying to install in him that this isn’t the life he’s going to get as an adult if he doesn’t work hard is my mission. I guess I’ll look upon it, as at least home learning as put this slap bang in front of me to deal with now..... rather than him coasting through ks3 and it be too late by is ks4.

Know exactly what you mean.

Torn between doing what my friend does which is making them redo the entire piece if it's not up to scratch ... apparently hers don't mess around anymore ... and adopting a "it's good enough for an emergency situation" attitude.

The thing is, actually, it's not really an emergency that makes doing the work harder ... it's quieter at home, he's more comfortable, snacks available etc. so standard should actually be BETTER.

But like yours, OP, just couldn't care.

My ten year old son is the same! Silly spelling mistakes, couldn’t figure out 11 x 3 even though I know he knows it. I’ve had the ‘do you complain/act/do your work like this at school convo and he grumbles no. Then moans it’s boring 🙄
It’s been a long few weeks for both of us and I’m hoping half term will give him a good break from the work and he/me will both be in a better homeschool frame of mind!

And my 7 y.o. doesn't really comprehend the link between a neatly done maths sheet and a foreign holiday. Nor really that different jobs pay differently e.g. that I'm paid more than his teacher. I suppose maybe I've been embarrassed to have those conversations. Will need to give it some thought.

@noimnotdoingit wow, your friend is hard core. I honestly can’t imagine how I’d get him to redo a piece of work. I know theoretically I could just ban everything till it’s done.... but the meltdown would be humongous. I am sensitive to home school being boring and I do appreciate that he does actually “do” all his lessons, so certainly don’t want to upset he status quo too much. Like you say, life for him is so much easier at home, with home comforts, quiet space, snacks etc. I’d like to think actually he could come out of this ahead of where he started (if he made the most of it). It does make me wonder what he actually does/doesn’t do at school!!

I'm hands on with home learning as I'm a sahm. I often look at my 9yr olds work and say your writing needs improvement.... yet his teacher I'm full of praise for his brilliant presentation and content etc. His work is always amazing and she's so proud of him etc.

Maybe we just set very high standards for kids without knowing what the average is?

What is the school doing to make their pupils accountable?

I know what you mean Op, it's hard getting more of an insight into your child's good and bad points with this homeschooling.

How much praise do you give him? I noticed in the first couple of weeks all my child got from me was ideas on how to improve their work, or lectures on their attitude which didn't do much good. I had a rethink and decided to make more of a point to praise their efforts and recognise its hard to work with your mum. I also put all their work in one place in an exercise book so they could look through it and be proud of it, and if the teacher gave any particularly in depth feedback, or wrote something nice, I'd write it in the book so my child could see it next to their work.

I'm not saying this is a magic cure, but it's definitely helped get a better attitude towards work as she has a bit of pride in her abilities. I think half of it was because she felt she wasn't very good, so she had low expectations on herself. Now she sees what she can do she seems happier to put in more effort.

Good luck Op, this homeschooling is hard!

Same as last time my two have started to disengage.

We don't get any live, recorded or otherwise human interaction from our schools and its pretty hard to keep them motivated by looking at the next powerpoint presenation.

That and both me and OH are working full time its just a bloody slog.

Just trying to keep us all sane is now the goal.

We will pay for tutors in the coming years .

The worst bit? Let me see. Ah yes: everything.

@PusheenLove they submit the work and it gets put in a ‘completed’ or ‘not completed’ folder by the teacher depending if they think it is acceptable standard. All his work gets put in the the completed folder.... but honestly it could be so much better. I guess I don’t know what other kids are doing, so relatively it might be ok. But I think mentality, because it’s so far from what I would have done, it’s hard to accept 😀. Take today for example.... 2 instructions in art, finish the colouring in, and go round the outline in black pen. He just does the colouring in..... I point out he’s only followed half the instructions and he just says it doesn’t matter. Now I know that in isolation is not a big deal..... but it’s what it tells me about his personality that upsets me. I just wish the teacher will look at it, write a comment that it’s not good enough.. and tell him he needs to finish it properly.
So maybe my gripe is also with the school. They need to be expecting higher standards, regardless of lockdown.

I wish someone has told me everything didn't have to be perfect when I was a kid! But I understand what you are saying and I think it is about balance. Day to day stuff doesn't need to be perfect but big projects do need effort and high expectations.

Anyway, homeschooling... I've studied two degrees one in a brick uni and one with the open university, so I possibly have a rare, but not unique, insight into what kids are going through currently.

The hardest parts of the OU (and I say this as an introvert and someone who did much better with distance learning) was the self motivation, dealing with the loneliness (i was single, working full time rotating day& night shift pattern at the time) time management skills, and prioritisation and this was as a 30 year old, not an 12 year old. By prioritisation I mean, when you are distance learning you end up submitting a lot more work for assessment rather than just your presence in a classroom/lecture counting as evidence of learning, much of this work just needs to be "good enough" whereas bigger coursework pieces/projects should be completed with higher expectations of perfection, this is a balance I really struggled with.

So maybe acknowledge and focus on those elements for a bit and ignore the actual work he is doing/producing. If nothing else you will teach him some awesome life skills.

Place marking as my y8 is similar

My y8 is similar. We jist had the first parents evening since the kods started school last year and I asked some of the teachers similar....how do they get feedback, how do they know what good is etc....very non-commital answers from some subjects. But equally when I sat with my son for one subject and I asked what the assignment was....he gave me a really vague answer but when we looked at the files given one of them was a lost of everything you have to do for a certain grade.....(my son misses these important bits of information!!). However, on the us side.....he sits upstairs and logs into every lesson. He does enough that the teachers are not contacting me.....there must be some merit there. He is remaining mostly positive through lockdown. He has is moments but is ok to live with. So credit there. One day he'll realise why I always go on at him....he thinks I'm a tiger mum....i'm not. But I have to share my effort amongst the kids and the youngest needs more support.....

I do agree with praising the good achievements though.

I'm a teacher and we are struggling so much trying to get children to engage and actually do the work, to any standard, that we have been told to be 'positive' about anything submitted so that we don't put them off or discourage them.

If school are accepting it, then you will have to be the bad guy if you want his attitude to change.

You could try emailing his form tutor to find out whether this poor attitude is also evident in school, although at this point in Y7 they may not know him well enough to say.

What did his primary school say? If he was diligent and hard-working then I feel that you don't need to worry - he'll get his mojo back as things return to normal.

If successive teachers have mentioned this, then you have your work cut out because he's been allowed to get away with it for a long time. You have tried persuasion and explanation, and linking hard work to tangible reward in life, so you may have to make him redo. You could choose one piece of work each day that must be done very well, or he risks having to redo it - it's up to him what he does after being given fair warning, and you'll just have to put up with the moaning if you want things to change.

I pull mine up on their lack of effort. I make them redo it. Have been known to be blunt and tell them their handwriting is awful, and they’re being lazy.

Every time they ask me a stupid question because they can’t be bothered to read the question, ask Alexa or open a dictionary I remind them I charge £1 for answering obvious questions. Genuine requests for help are never ignored and I don’t charge for those.

There is a point however usually by about 2pm and they’ve gone beyond it. After that if nothing is getting done of any standard and their concentration is shot and they just want to play outside all afternoon I let them. But maths and English must be done to their best efforts every school day morning.