Extending school term at end of July

[NeverForgetYourDreams]

That's not going to work. Another ridiculous idea. What about all those people that moved their cancelled holidays for 2020 by a year. Summer holidays may go ahead if vaccine roll out happens and who is going to cancel and lose their money - I'm not. Will be lots of absent children.

I live hte an area of England where schools finish a week earlier for the summer than the England norm, and start back a week earlier in late August. We'll be in Scotland on holiday from 11th July. Happy to look at tailored sessions (mainly English and writing and SEN support) when we get back but not cancelling the one thing we have to look forward to right now.

How about these childrens mental health. Why are we now putting the pressure on them to catch up??? We're they not under enough pressure before. They curriculum needs to be adapted we can not impose unrealistic expectations on them and set them up to fail. Give these kids a break fgs.

I think it's a good idea. People have been saying for years that the long summer holidays don't work- kids forget too much, they're off for too long, holidays are extortionate, parents can't find childcare, Christmas isn't long enough. Well now is the perfect time to make the change- everything is already up in the air. Let local governments set their own terms with what works for them.

All those teachers saying well I won't be working overtime (which I know you already do) - I'm not in teaching, but I've been in several jobs where my working hours/ days/ weeks have been changed at a lot less notice than this, as well as where I have had to work unpaid overtime to ensure a job was done. I and the rest of the workers didn't get a say in it- the business needed to change to fit their needs, if we didn't like it we could leave. I don't understand why you're careers would be different from anyone elses in that regard to be honest, other than apparently teachers can shout a bit louder than everyone else.

"catching up" is bullshit - the curriculum is an arbitrary thing
why should children's wellbeing be put second to completing schemes of work?
these kids are also living through a world-changing event, the last thing they need is more pressure
it feels like clinging on to something not fit for the new times we will all be living in to me

Can't agree with your race-to-the-bottom approach to workers' rights @KnobJockey, not at all (not a teacher)

My children haven't had a learning break. They've both done all the work asked of them and more during the first lockdown when provision wasn't good because I was worried about them falling behind. The government has stated the curriculum must be followed and our schools are providing lessons at home with all work marked by a teacher. When they went back in September my eldest hated it because they were going over work she'd already done during the lockdown. I don't know what the answer is for children who won't do the work at home or those that aren't able to get assistance because of work commitments but my own children need a break. Not longer hours or extra learning days.

It won't happen because the Govt will have to fund an extra two weeks pay for every school member of staff to work. It'll cost billions and we've already accumulated so much debt because of this pandemic.

I have had to work unpaid overtime to ensure a job was done. I and the rest of the workers didn't get a say in it- the business needed to change to fit their needs, if we didn't like it we could leave.

Does that mean giving up approximately half on your annual leave every year?

@TheMoth

Yes, there are kids who have been given laptops, delivered to their door, given Internet access etc and STILL aren't doing anything.

I'm not sure what point you are making here?

if we didn't like it we could leave.

So can teachers leave. Experienced and dedicated teachers, the ones who so far have felt it worthwhile to stay because they love teaching. Where does that leave your children? That NQT may be lovely, but nothing substitutes for experience.

@pistachioglace

The point is the kids who genuinely need catch up are the kids who won’t attend.

@KnobJockey

I think it's a good idea. People have been saying for years that the long summer holidays don't work- kids forget too much, they're off for too long, holidays are extortionate, parents can't find childcare, Christmas isn't long enough. Well now is the perfect time to make the change- everything is already up in the air. Let local governments set their own terms with what works for them.

All those teachers saying well I won't be working overtime (which I know you already do) - I'm not in teaching, but I've been in several jobs where my working hours/ days/ weeks have been changed at a lot less notice than this, as well as where I have had to work unpaid overtime to ensure a job was done. I and the rest of the workers didn't get a say in it- the business needed to change to fit their needs, if we didn't like it we could leave. I don't understand why you're careers would be different from anyone elses in that regard to be honest, other than apparently teachers can shout a bit louder than everyone else.

We’ve got some of the shortest school holidays in the world-I can’t see them being shortened even more.

@kingat

I would be very happy with this, but this is yet another thread on MN where any idea suggested is met with a big fat NO.

This thread:

Group 1: "This suggestion is poor because it doesn't take into account teacher contracts, mental health, need to time off and the fact many use time over the summer to prepare for the next school year and children are not going to be best placed to actually learn after such a stressful difficult year and would be better socialising and catching up on that skill. What would really help would be (bunch of alternative ideas).

Group 2: "Mumsnet is so unconstructive because it doesn't simply agree with the government led trial balloon ideas and how very dare they take the time to explain why the idea is a bad one and come up with alternative solutions I don't like. We should ignore problems and concerns and just plough on regardless inspite of these warnings from professionals and parents because this definitely going to help kids. Instead i shall accuse others of being difficult and uncooperative because im not getting my way like a stroppy child and refuse to acknowledge that criticism levelled is accompanied by genuine concerns and constructive alternatives because it suits me to just ignore this part and to wail instead."

Honestly yes, this does really sum up MN.

Our school already runs a 2 week summer school for the most vulnerable kids to aid transition from year 6-7.

@borntobequiet

if we didn't like it we could leave.

So can teachers leave. Experienced and dedicated teachers, the ones who so far have felt it worthwhile to stay because they love teaching. Where does that leave your children? That NQT may be lovely, but nothing substitutes for experience.

If lots of teachers left the profession due to attitudes about teachers being lazy, stupid, not caring, being unprepared to flog their guts out my child would be fine cos i live in a nice area and the school has a good reputation.

However if teachers left in droves its the kids in more deprived areas - the very kids who most need additional help - who would be left with no teachers and a massive staffing crisis.

Of course the logic here about claiming to care for the well being and educational needs of children whilst simultaneously being an arse and making working conditions for teachers unbearable or putting them under unjustifiably and impossible pressure is lost.

Strangely enough this attitude seems to be coming most from parents with kids in private schools (and aware with the fairies as they are utterly clueless about the situation in state schools) or middle class parents in better areas. Funny that.

Yes children are behind but we shouldn't be putting pressure on them to catch up.due to someone that wasn't their fault. Change the curriculum and lower expectations. Put more emphasis on their mental fgs.

I’m really stressed about this - I’ve booked a holiday with my children and we’ve not been away in years......UK only and not far so was sure we’d be able to go. I can only get a refund due to Covid not due to school holidays....panicking a bit

Don’t get stressed, Not, it won’t happen! For various reasons but one being that the hospitality industry really needs you to go on that holiday.

I maintain that extra support in the classroom in normal termtime would be the best option.

My school run a playscheme for two weeks in the summer run by retired staff and any current staff who wish to do it. It's always oversubscribed. The money would be well spent on extending things like this. Focus on fitness, socialisation and collaborative learning

I would love the option to send my DC in to 'catch up'. I haven't been sending mine to school despite us both being key workers because the school asked everyone not to unless absolutely no other options so I have been using childcare instead (there are 17 dc attending one of my children's classes). There is no question that this has put mine behind so I am trying to do the right thing by school. If there an option to send then in for a couple of weeks in the summer to 'catch up' a bit, of course I would grab it with both hands. However I won't be asking for it or campaigning for it because I am happy to put the needs of the school staff first again, just as I am doing now. I just hope I don't regret my decisions down the line.

Not quite sure how they plan to staff this!
I have been working all the way though in 2020 and this year too. On site with our most vulnerable. This is just further perpetuating the myth that we are all on our asses at home watching Bridgerton!

I hope they make it permanent and shorten the summer holidays to give a longer winter holiday when the weather is awful, the evenings are dark and illness is generally worse. As much as I like a long summer holiday, four weeks is more than enough at any one time. Even if it messes up our own plans this year.

I have had to work unpaid overtime to ensure a job was done. I and the rest of the workers didn't get a say in it- the business needed to change to fit their needs, if we didn't like it we could leave.

I think that's what teachers already do. What this discussion is about is whether terms and conditions of teachers contracts could be altered to enable this. Some teachers might agree, it's likely to be a net cost to me after child care, so I won't be agreeing to a contract change. Your contract didn't change, you were just expected to work additional hours to get a job done, which is the same as teachers do when it's term time. The equivalent would be your firm asking you to do an additional 6 week project for free, from the beginning, for no extra pay. You could agree to voluntary work of this nature but you can't legally be forced into it.

@IrisAnon

I hope they make it permanent and shorten the summer holidays to give a longer winter holiday when the weather is awful, the evenings are dark and illness is generally worse. As much as I like a long summer holiday, four weeks is more than enough at any one time. Even if it messes up our own plans this year.

I definitely prefer a longer summer holiday when I can enjoy the weather.

@IrisAnon

I hope they make it permanent and shorten the summer holidays to give a longer winter holiday when the weather is awful, the evenings are dark and illness is generally worse. As much as I like a long summer holiday, four weeks is more than enough at any one time. Even if it messes up our own plans this year.

I'd also support a permanent change to a four week summer holiday.

@sherrystrull It often starts raining on the first day of the July/August hols! Taking advantage of the best UK weather would mean moving the break to May/June time.

Surprised so many on here are convinced changes to term dates won't happen. I'm very much getting the impression they will in some form.

Probably if the government want to provide more contact hours for the kids...either after school or in the holidays, they just need to look at hiring a lot more staff to do it. That’s the essence of it all isn’t it. If here is lots more work to do, lots more staff are needed.

But do we think the government will be willing to fund that and train and recruit more teachers either for the summer or into the longer term?

It’s always the heart of this issue...funding enough staff so the job can be done....not thinking the existing staff should do double.

I have zero problem with extra provision for any children in any schools. But it has to be funded and there has to be recognition that existing staff cannot do the job of 2 people or 2 people’s hours, so more staff are needed. That’s down to government to provide isn’t it and not to existing teachers.

But the thing is, they can’t magic up more teachers by summer...so any genuine academic catch up can’t happen. And they won’t want to fund training and recruiting more, so in reality there won’t be more or better provision long term. It’s the children who are then short changed...by government and not by the existing teachers.