Extending school term at end of July

[NeverForgetYourDreams]

That's not going to work. Another ridiculous idea. What about all those people that moved their cancelled holidays for 2020 by a year. Summer holidays may go ahead if vaccine roll out happens and who is going to cancel and lose their money - I'm not. Will be lots of absent children.

many parents are keen for their kids to return to school, so perhaps many of them would welcome a slightly shorter summer break.

When 4 weeks of summer school was proposed, the vote was massively against.

Parents don’t want it for their kids. And if the extra schooling is reduced to two weeks, what’s the point? How much will they ‘catch up’ in two weeks when they’re knackered and the classrooms are boiling?

@JackieWeaverputmeinthewaitingr

Let's also be realistic about the cost benefit analysis of this idea.

Will the students who really need it turn up?

Huge cost for very little benefit in my eyes.

Perhaps some of the people who run summer school holiday clubs could be involved... are they usually qualified teachers?

Not all, not by any means.

And the majority of qualified teachers I know who do holiday club type work are ex-teachers who wouldn't go back to teaching.

We currently have some of the shortest summer holidays in the world. It would be so unfair to shorten them even further. The holidays are when schools are refurbished, extra classrooms built etc. And trying to book a holiday would be much harder and much more expensive with everyone trying to book in the same weeks.

I’m keen for kids to get back to school (not ignoring the issues with that) because I believe it’s the best thing for them not because I find childcare difficult. I look forward to having them home. They’ve had a hugely stressful year and need a break in the summer when hopefully they’ll be able to do some of the things they enjoy. Not all kids are chilled out, slacking off studying, some are conscientious, natural worriers, put themselves under a lot of pressure and they just need to chill out and enjoy themselves!

Last year my DCs were among those off from March to September.

No, they weren't off until September. Schools finish in June or July.

The issue I read through this entire thread is parents and teachers not understanding one another.

Parents need home learning so they can get on with wfh. Many many fantastic teachers are offering this, like Nellodee, who is live teaching her year 13s ever Saturday.

The issue is that there still seem to be teachers - and a lot if we gauge from what parents on this thread are saying - who are sending home teaching. I’m talking about the teachers, who aren’t offering much if any live teaching and perhaps don’t even realise what they’re expecting of the kids and parents. Some children are able to work with parents and are keeping up. Others are not and the attainment gap is widening. And because some of the children are working, no one realises there is a big issue.

My dd’s English teacher, for example, is sending home teaching. I passed on the work to my friend, who is teacher and also has a child the same age as my dd. It was an eye opener for both of us. Me at what another teacher thinks of what is being expected, and her at the high level of difficulty of the work and lack of help. For context, my dd is in yr8 and thus has spent 40% of her time since arriving at secondary out of school not acquiring the skills she needs to complete the work.

There are no regular live lesson, no guidelines on how to complete the work, no help to analyse the texts and understand the questions. Additionally, the amount of work they are expected to get through is something else. All they get is a 3 min video from the teacher mostly telling the kids not to ask stupid questions (they’re not, the kids can’t do the work), handing work in late and not producing enough work.

I have contacted school btw to explain the situation ( in a non critical way) and I got a very receptive response thanking me for being constructive and they will come back to me this week after looking into it. My dd is fine but I explained I am concerned for the other children and their widening learning gaps.

My dd is working but only because I studied A level English, am an arts graduate and have a background in TEFL. She also has a weekly tutor. I’ve sat with the tutor and dd so I now get the format and dd’s level so I can teach the remaining lessons. But this is not my job nor should it be.

Some of what she is being sent is in the format of GCSE questions with the 1, 2, 3 etc next to the text and pretty much all the work is that sort of level. So the children are basically be being asked to sit a GCSE paper with no prep or help four times a week aged 12/13.

This is quite extreme and very different from everything else dd has from school, most of which from what I can see is great, can be done alone and is of an appropriate standard.

I think the hard working teachers on this thread probably don’t realise what is going on out there and that maybe some of their colleagues are working very differently from them.

Mummyoflittledragon

Teachers do understand what it is like to work and home school - teachers are parents too and are experiencing the exact same difficulties. This is something that is often overlooked and assumed that teachers don't it.

Teachers are not all childless single women like it used to be 100 years ago.

The issue I read through this entire thread is parents and teachers not understanding one another.

I am both. My child is also currently not physically in school, so also juggling live video lessons (5 hours per day plus form time registration, been doing video parents evenings each week and planning, marking, doing reports at night) with my pupils, whilst my child sits and watches telly on her own (she’s 5) and I catch up with her home learning with her late afternoons and weekends. I’m one of the lucky ones not having to also be in school to teach the children there, on top of it all.

So, so many of the teachers on this thread are also parents (although it shouldn’t actually matter and the viewpoints of teachers without children or adult children are also valid)

We do understand, empathise and sympathise, whilst also coming from the viewpoint that we also know how much we are working currently and what we will be doing (again) once schools are open more to the rest of the children (for free but at our own planning) and so have every right to comment about not wanting to work even more for free (still haven’t been paid for working two weeks over Easter and May half term last year) when I know I would instead prefer my child to be able to play with other children and visit places other than walking round the block or local park come the last week of July.

It’s not either/or.

Oh and I should also add that there are no live lessons or videos recorded for my DD either, so have been supplementing with Oak National Academy lessons and been perfectly happy with that.
I don’t expect live lessons for my own DD necessarily. I don’t feel like I am ‘teaching’ her either but facilitating the tech and instructions for her.

I’m always aware staff may well have personal circumstances I am not privy to and or have been deployed to work elsewhere, such as with the KW or vulnerable children.
It sounds great that your child’s school has responded about dealing with your request for this one subject, this week, mummyoflittledragon (contacting a few weeks ago might have also been a good idea?) and it’s positive that all her other subject teachers have been providing her lessons well, as you say.
I’m still not convinced working in very hot and stuffy classrooms at the end of July, will magically bring all children up to speed (when they would benefit so much more from having direct socialisation with others instead.

But I fully appreciate there are others who don’t share this viewpoint.

I booked a UK holiday for the last week of July yesterday. Booking the leave today, I am a health care worker who had significant amoints of leave cancelled in the last year. I will be fully immunised, if it's within rules, I am going.

Also the DCs (14&17) are working hard, as they did March-July last year. They need a break.

Yes mine is working hard. I'd not send her in post end of term. She needs the summer off .

Some posters on here also seem be confusing catching up academically with catching up socially or allowing parents to have time away from their kids. 'Catching up' seems to be synonymous with 'thank fuck the kids will be out of my hair for 2 weeks. ' 2 weeks. Which is not enough time to 'catch up' to some arbitrary target, but will have a detrimental effect if teachers have to do more.

@Awalkintime
Yes you’re right. I didn’t mean it to sound like that. I fully understand teachers are also parents. What I meant is the clash happening on this thread seems like a mismatch between teachers on this thread, who are offering brilliant provision and parents on this thread, whose children are on the receiving end of little to no teaching, or no teaching in some subjects.

@ChloeDecker
I am also answering you in the paragraph above. In hindsight, yes it would have been good to contact the school earlier. However, last year, there were no live lessons. So the English provision, albeit far more difficult than all the other subjects was not so very different from the other classes. The only teacher providing tailored was the German teacher, who made videos. Lots of teachers directed the children to videos, video lessons and oak academy. No live lessons. I considered these lessons as respite. Additionally there weren’t so many live lessons as there are today at the start of this term so it’s taken a while for me to really see the difference. This plus the horror my teacher friend expressed that I’m under reacting.

Anyway the main thing is an issue has been identified and the school are now aware they need to spend time looking at English provision overall in the department - we are not the only one with issues - and catch up session can be tailored. Again as other parents were complaining amongst themselves, I saw it as more normal and another reason for not contacting the school sooner....

@pistachioglace

Last year my DCs were among those off from March to September.

No, they weren't off until September. Schools finish in June or July.

Yes and there were around five weeks of holidays - Easter and two half terms included in the rest of the time they were off too.

Oh and I should have added @ChloeDecker, I realise there may be very good reasons other than ‘the teacher is lazy’ for why the provision is thus.

@Defenbaker because after nearly 30 years in the profession that is my experience. Because largely those children currently not engaging with remote learning are those who were behind even before lockdown. This is despite us offering alternative provision, providing laptops or hard copy packs of work, offering places in school under the vulnerable category etc. I know often it's circumstances that prevent parents from supporting their children but sometimes there is also a lack of engagement too.

I have every sympathy with working parents, struggling with home learning. I am one. My primary aged children get very little from their school.
I take issue with the posters who demand teachers do their bidding because it is their duty and because all teachers are lazy left whingers, whose union affiliations got us into this mess.
There are quite a few of that type, many of whom are intentionally stirring the shit for nefarious reasons of their own. This whole suggestion of working over summer is unrealisable propaganda and we teachers are sick of being made scape goats for society’s ills.
I do hope you get some joy with your daughters English provision.

@Mummyoflittledragon

I was onboard with what you were saying until you used the teacher working Saturday’s to illustrate what a good teacher is. This reinforces the opinion that parents have an expectation that a good teacher is one that always goes above and beyond, giving up their personal time.

This should not be the case. Nellodee is not being paid for that time, so on the contrary we should be saying to her ‘do not do that, you need your break too’.

I have argued quite aggressively my point on this thread, that I will only do what I am paid to do and contracted to do. That is all that SHOULD be asked of me. Im not here to entertain children, I have my own to entertain. I’m here to deliver a lesson and then encourage independent research and learning, as I would in school. That does not make me a bad teacher, if it doesn’t fit with what parents want.

Personally I believe in live lessons and enjoy teaching this way rather than posting videos...so I do both. I post a video and slideshow and I do a live lesson, every lesson. There is no legal obligation to do this, teachers can choose not to deliver live lessons. Some of my live lessons last an hour, others are done in 10 minutes. Again, I’m not going to hold children on line pointlessly to give their parents respite. I have plenty of planning, marking and assessment to do, which o would prefer not to start after the school day has ended. Again, it doesn’t make me a bad teacher because I’d like a life after 4pm, have my own children I’d like to spend time with and won’t work holidays or weekends (ever again - I’ve made those mistakes before and had to actually wait a school year and explain my way out of giving up that time, it became expected!)

Because largely those children currently not engaging with remote learning are those who were behind even before lockdown. This is despite us offering alternative provision, providing laptops or hard copy packs of work, offering places in school under the vulnerable category etc

Yes, we've had parents not willing for their children to engage, not willing to put expectations and boundaries in place and blame lack of devices. Given a new laptop, they've handed it back as they don't want this 'blocker' removed.

I agree that what parents seem to hope for is very varied and the term ‘catch-up’ is used all a cover-all circumstances, because surely no-one can argue against children having missed out and some form of catch-up being a good thing. Some people think if it as academic work in English and Maths, but lots of people see it as some kind of play scheme...either because they really feel their kids have missed out on this aspect (which they have) or that they want the children out of their hair so they can either work or have some time without them....so a form of free childcare. So many don’t want academic catch up, but by using this term, lots of people basically call for further childcare.

And then any teacher who says they already work well beyond their contract and won’t be providing further hours after school or in holidays is suddenly a baddie who isn’t supportive of children and their catch-up. It’s up to government to fund and supply staff to do this...not teachers who already have their own job to do. Any catch up is a different job and will need to have different staff.

In reality anything that happens will be very limited and optional and not attended by those who most need it, and it won’t be staffed by the class teachers....but people don’t seem to spot these realities.

I only brought up me working on a Saturday because some horrible poster made the "if you don't want to do extra work, you're in the wrong job" comment. It's absolutely a choice, if I was forced to do it for money, I'd be stubborn and refuse. I like teaching year 13, they are an absolute pleasure, and I picked the time myself to fit around both my and their timetables.

Although I'm doing that, every single teacher I know gives up huge amounts of their own time, be it in the evenings or weekends, to mark, prepare, sort out schemes of work and other admin, and contact home. It's very often a crappy work life balance and I absolutely don't think people should have to work 60 hours or justify the hours they are working.

Most of my students have nothing to catch up with. The ones who do, almost certainly wouldn't, unfortunately. I am knackered and desperate for half term to come and I have no intention of giving up a single day of my summer holiday (other than the two days I give up anyway if results day is occurring and all the other days I give up prepping schemes of work for the next year, but OTHER than those, not a SINGLE day.)

@kingat

I would be very happy with this, but this is yet another thread on MN where any idea suggested is met with a big fat NO.

• From parents who have made alternative arrangements for the summer already, and want their children to have a proper break from learning
• From teachers who have made alternative arrangements for the summer already, and who are not contracted to work then

Unsurprising really. There are lots of sensible alternative suggestions on this thread.

Yes, there are kids who have been given laptops, delivered to their door, given Internet access etc and STILL aren't doing anything.