Guilt over getting vaccine

[PatsyKen]

DH and I are both teachers. We got a call an hour who from a doctor acquaintance who was doing covid jabs today and they had quite a few spare so they were all contacting teacher contacts to see if they get down to the vaccine centre ASAP. We live 10 minutes away so went immediately. I feel guilty! I feel bad I’ve jumped the queue when we’re in good health. We both are in daily contact with lots of children (I look after Y1/2 key worker kids rather than online teaching) but I feel almost embarrassed to have got it. Would you feel bad? Should I not have taken it?

'thought you of all people would be pleased that such in roads are being made into the vaccination numbers, rather than nitpicking about a few spare doses.'

Me of 'all people'? Well, yes I'm pleased 12m have been vaccinated however anecdotally when I hear some CEV and some over 70s let alone over 60s haven't been done yet Bev from the practice is ringing anyone at short notice except those on the lists to have spare it does annoy me. No one needs to write lists just use a computer system which all know are in every centre.

A 'few spare doses' at every single vaccination centre all adds up.

Nepotism 🤷‍♀️

This is unfair, you were offered the vaccination because of who you know not because of what you do. That is the justification you are using to make yourself feel better.

According to the local paper today my county is upto 40% of the over 70s with no figures for CEV. We have no local hub but one which is under the distance has been reported in the media as providing school staff of their city with vaccines. This is causing local upset as they are provided vaccines for the larger community not just their city and these decisions have further reach. I am for key worker being given a higher priority but not at a cost to CEV or the over 70s.

@rookiemere

Well no *@DareIask* just because they have a system based list of patients, doesn't mean it's automatically listed in vaccine priority order - why would it be ?

Isn't difficult to re do a list in to ages.

@DareIask I agree it would be easy enough to pull out by ages if the system supports a full query on all patients and someone in the practice is trained to be able to run that query. But neither of those things may exist.

Also as below doing by age excludes CEV patients so that's not good enough either apparently.

Look I actually don't disagree- in an ideal world every vaccine would be given strictly in priority order. In reality if that's what had been insisted on, I doubt we'd be anywhere near the 12 million doses administered already. To achieve it we would need the health professionals already working at capacity to put in even longer hours justifying whatever decisions were made and trying to contact people who may struggle to get into the surgery at short notice.

In Israel apparently they grabbed people off the street at the end of the day if they had spare vaccines - would people prefer that ?

In Israel apparently they grabbed people off the street at the end of the day if they had spare vaccines - would people prefer that?
It’s better than the nepotism of friends of doctors get vaccinated.

I don’t accept that there can’t be a fairer system though.

I don't disagree that the vaccines should be used up.. of course wasting them would be criminal. If a list of people willing to come in at short notice pinned to the wall is beyond possible then drag anyone in.

Doctors picking their teacher friends I find distasteful at best, if not unprofessional and unethical.

There would be uproar if they chose their friends or someone they though more deserving for any other preferential treatment

When given a vaccine a persons records need to be updated, surely.

So they access these records online.. but can't have a list of who needs it.

Maybe for those who have appointments the updating of records happens later when vaccinators have online access to them.

The one person I know who was called up for a spare dose (a vet) was given a card and told to notify her GP herself that she'd had it.

OP Don't feel guilty, far better that you had it than it went to waste.

I'm sure there could be a fairer system. Perhaps we should halt all vaccinations whilst a government task force comes up with what it should be and implements it nation wide, with the systems changes and training to support it.

Or perhaps we accept that the health professionals are already working long hours to get this rolled out amazingly fast and stop quibbling over fractional doses of the vaccine.

Or perhaps we accept that the health professionals are already working long hours to get this rolled out amazingly fast and stop quibbling over fractional doses of the vaccine.

Doctors shouldn’t be put in that position. I don’t think it’s wrong to challenge a systemic unfairness that in all likelihood puts people already at an advantage in society at the front of the queue for vaccines based only on who their friends are. That is totally wrong.

Or perhaps we accept that the health professionals are already working long hours to get this rolled out amazingly fast and stop quibbling over fractional doses of the vaccine.

Yes exactly. It's not as if people have more freedom when they're vaccinated.

Perhaps we should halt all vaccinations whilst a government task force comes up with what it should be and implements it nation wide, with the systems changes and training to support it.

What a ridiculous response. Literally nobody is suggesting that apart from you.

Doctors shouldn’t be put in that position.

But who are you expecting to put all that in place? Are you expecting the GPs/vaccinators/admin staff/volunteers to work even longer hours?

Perhaps we should halt all vaccinations whilst a government task force comes up with what it should be and implements it nation wide, with the systems changes and training to support it.

I think that was meant sarcastically......

I would expect that the admin for the days vaccination would include a back up call list from the priority groups. As has been said already on this thread, that’s already what some practices are doing.

Incidentally how is vaccination in the rest of Europe going?
I'm no Brexiteer, but it does seem like an excellent example of delay caused by trying to keep everyone happy/make everything perfect and by dint of that achieving nothing fast.

One minute the NHS doctors and nurses are national heroes, the next they can't be trusted to make rational quick decisions about how to give out small numbers of left over vaccines at the end of long working days.

Absolutely if there are cases where large groups of people are being allowed to queue jump for non leftover vaccines- that's a systemic issue that needs to be investigated- several doses of a vaccine at the end of a 12 hour working day that needs to be used within an hour or disposed - personal judgement seems appropriate from where I'm sitting.

One minute the NHS doctors and nurses are national heroes, the next they can't be trusted to make rational quick decisions about how to give out small numbers of left over vaccines at the end of long working days.

You’re not getting it. Any system should have planned for no shows at the very beginning. Doctors ringing their mates is a totally unfair way to allocate those vaccines. Those people will also need a second dose in 12 weeks time.

This is not a criticism of the individual doctors. They absolutely should not be in that position.

'I'm sure there could be a fairer system. Perhaps we should halt all vaccinations whilst a government task force comes up with what it should be and implements it nation wide, with the systems changes and training to support it.'

Oh stop being so dramatic, no one wants anything halting 🙄. The point is there has been months to prepare for this!! months to predict no shows and left over doses. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that using software to identify next groups and available contact details should have been in the plan, whereas ringing family and friends shouldn't have been in the plan.

Nobody has had months to prepare for this.

Scientists did an incredible job developing vaccines in such a short time, until the first vaccine was approved in December ( I think it was or late November) there would have been little point in planning for something when you don't know how it's going to work.

British government has also done an amazing job spreading their bets and investing in so many vaccines.

Now they and whoever is involved in it have also managed to deliver over 12 million vaccines - primarily to the top priority groups - again quite a feat to be applauded.

I believe standard practice for leftover vaccines (non covid) is to accept a certain level of daily wastage, but bravo to the medical professionals and vaccinators for not doing that.

Should there be a priority list - absolutely- should it be slavishly followed when you have a couple of doses at the end of the day that need to be used up and you know if you ring up a couple of teachers you know that will answer their phones straight away, get to the surgery pronto and not get irate if a genuine mistake has been made and in fact there is no vaccines left - well I guess this is where I differ from others as I'd say in those circumstances let the practice make their own call.

The system does have built in flexibility for no shows. But even after that there will be a small number left at the end of the day. I have no objection to those going to teachers, the police, partners of the people being vaccinated, a random walking past the centre. Just get them to whoever. The numbers are so small that it isn’t worth worrying about as ‘nepotism’.

People concerned about nepotism should be looking at how Tory donors have gained contracts for coronavirus related services, not the odd teacher getting a vaccine at the end of the day.

I am so relieved to hear that doses are not being wasted - I do not care how it came about, we are all due to have them this year and it is a mammoth task, so there is not really any time to plan the logistics of the spares.

Incidentally I think teachers should be a priority anyway so definitely ditch the guilt.

To be honest I’m a little surprised your doctor friend (and his colleagues) went through his contacts and specifically picked out teachers. Why not other occupations bus drivers, supermarket workers? Or what about those who have other health conditions who are keywords who are at more at risk then you?

No one wants vaccines going to waste, but there are too many stories coming out about friends being sent links etc. Surely it can’t be that hard to have wait lists for people in categories in 1-9 of the jcvi guidelines.

I wouldn't feel too bad seeing as we will all probably still be in lockdown even after everyones been vaccinated

You haven't done a bad thing but not sure GPs should be making these decisions in advance of government who decided on a priority based on age and clinical vulnerability though this may change). The GP could have contacted someone in a category further down the existing list rather than inventing his/her own priority category. Still better you have it than thrown away.

@PatsyKen

DH and I are both teachers. We got a call an hour who from a doctor acquaintance who was doing covid jabs today and they had quite a few spare so they were all contacting teacher contacts to see if they get down to the vaccine centre ASAP. We live 10 minutes away so went immediately. I feel guilty! I feel bad I’ve jumped the queue when we’re in good health. We both are in daily contact with lots of children (I look after Y1/2 key worker kids rather than online teaching) but I feel almost embarrassed to have got it. Would you feel bad? Should I not have taken it?

Please don’t feel guilty. You are protecting yourselves, which will mean you can be there for your pupils - and you are part of protecting society as a whole.

Better that you had the vaccination than that it was wasted.