Guilt over getting vaccine

[PatsyKen]

DH and I are both teachers. We got a call an hour who from a doctor acquaintance who was doing covid jabs today and they had quite a few spare so they were all contacting teacher contacts to see if they get down to the vaccine centre ASAP. We live 10 minutes away so went immediately. I feel guilty! I feel bad I’ve jumped the queue when we’re in good health. We both are in daily contact with lots of children (I look after Y1/2 key worker kids rather than online teaching) but I feel almost embarrassed to have got it. Would you feel bad? Should I not have taken it?

I would prefer that someone in one of the priority groups was given it - there should be proper standby lists so thus doesn't happen

But I do understand why no-one would turn it down if offered. I just think the 'who you know' process for using the spare doses is all kind of wrong. There are lots of people in the priority groups that could jump in the car and go get it

'But I do understand why no-one would turn it down if offered. I just think the 'who you know' process for using the spare doses is all kind of wrong. There are lots of people in the priority groups that could jump in the car and go get it'

Exactly. No, don't waste doses! but hcps, if you've the time to ring your pals you've time to consult a patient list and ring the next group on it. We know it and you know it.

Larger centres won't have the info at hand apparently. That's why a bit of thought and planning in the last few months would have been an idea.

OP, I’m not surprised that you’re feeling guilty. I would feel guilty in the same situation because I’d be pushing someone more vulnerable down the list. Remember that we’re only up to groups 1-4 being vaccinated. There are millions of people in groups 5-9 who are still much more at risk of serious illness or death. These groups are people under 65 - ie working age people, many of whom will be in some sort of public facing role. I can’t believe your friend couldn’t offer the spare vaccine to any of them. It’s not your fault that you were offered it, and I can understand why you took it up. I probably would too. But I would feel very guilty about it. The system is wrong to allow this to happen.

@reginafalange2020

Don't feel bad. The GP was clearly trying to find people who could get there quickly.

I'm a vaccinator, I had 2 vaccines left from a mass clinic I didn't last month I was told to ring 2 people who were ideally elderly or at risk to come down within 10 minutes to have them. I couldn't think of any elderly people I knew who could move that quickly so I called my FIL - police officer and my friends husband who is also a police officer.
If I could vaccinate every teacher I knew I would!! You guys are looking after my kids so I can vaccinate and work in ICU, without teachers I wouldn't be able to do my job so well deserved in my opinion x

Why do you not have a list of appropriate people ? - I really struggle to believe that it is beyond the competence of the NHS to think there may be a few vaccines left at the end of the day so to have a list of people in the relevant categories who can potentially be called rather than ‘can’t think of anyone so will do my fil and friend’s husband’ I am massively impressed by the vaccine rollout but to be honest I am getting fed up now about the number of people who are supposedly getting vaccines before their allotted time and the way anyone who queries it is told that every jab in the arm is one step closer for us all. Of course it is but the various categories were established for a reason and from what I have seen the system is undoubtedly now being circumvented by NHS staff to ensure their family and friends are vaccinated.Inthe meantime my dd who is in group 6 due to a heart condition is registered at her Uni Gp surgery but has not been allowed to return since the Christmas break, has tried to register as a temporary patient at 6 different local surgeries in order to access the vaccine when it is legitimately her turn to get it and has been rejected by each one but also told by her University that she cannot return to get it there.

@user1471448866. Similar situation with my daughter (Group 6). I'm phoning her old GP tomorrow, I'm assuming they can book a vaccine appointment online and go to any of the mass vaccination centres.

[quote Frazzled6]@user1471448866. Similar situation with my daughter (Group 6). I'm phoning her old GP tomorrow, I'm assuming they can book a vaccine appointment online and go to any of the mass vaccination centres.[/quote]
I hope you get an appnt for your daughter. We are in the North West but dd has a friend in London in exactly the same position - no surgery will accept her as a temporary patient. Dd has tried old surgery - got told absolutely no chance. Was hoping to go through central booking system but been told by her Uni that relevant correspondence will have gone to her Uni address and she is not allowed to travel there and won’t be allowed access to collect it (College system so can be strictly enforced)

@SecretSpAD

Both my husband and I were offered spare vaccines this week. Him because he's volunteering at a vaccine centre and even because there were spares when I went to pick him up from work one evening. Neither of us feel guilty. He's doing a vital bit of service to his community and me because I'm currently doing virtual consultations with patients (for the first time in years working as a proper doctor!). My dad has been done and so have my in laws. We just see it as another few people ticked off and, of course, better in an arm than a bin.

Must be a lovely position to be in when (it would appear) that most of your family have been vaccinated irrespective of the categories supposedly set out by the Govt. The vaccination programme appears increasingly to be yet another instance where the ‘sharp elbowed’ middle classes are ensuring that they and their friends take priority regardless of any supposed guidelines and the rest of us can wait our turn whilst being constantly told that it doesn’t matter whose arm the jab goes into , we should just be grateful that someone is getting these supposedly “spare” Shots. Presumably the vaccination clinics can keep a running tally of those people who do not attend ? It seems highly unlikely that all the non attendees are at the end of the day so why are they not immediately trying to contact one of the most vulnerable people as soon as they realise that someone hasn’t attended ? Why is it being portrayed as so last minute and therefore unavoidable that they cannot contact those most in need ? Also I haven’t yet seen one of these threads where a vaccine went to , say a waitress or a refuse collector or a supermarket worker or a plethora of other jobs. Without exception the extra jabs are , via NHS staff finding their way into the arms of their relatives/friends in similiar middle class positions.

User147144i66@ well said couldn’t agree more.

I've not had it but I'm happy for teachers to have it as they have tons of kids swarming round them.

@Pixxie7

User147144i66@ well said couldn’t agree more.

Entirely agree I’d be pretty embarrassing telling my my older and more vulnerable family awaiting jabs that my mate had managed to leapfrog me.

I'm a vaccinator, whose day job is within the healthcare sector.
I mostly work at the large hubs. We register everyone who attends obviously. We need to register each pt as they walk in the door ( they present their letter to us).
We are not like a Gp that have a great database of names and telephones to hand so we can go through a list. Sadly it doesn't work that way. We literally cannot call anyone else up as we have no access to any such list. I'm
Hoping this might change. We look to our immediate surroundings if there is a spare dose left, be that security guards, volunteers etc. Sadly we don't have permission to give anyone their second dose early. That may change as well.
Just stating what the situation is at present.
I don't object to anyone who is in the right place at the right time getting g a first dose, whatever their background.

@dailydose thanks that’s interesting. How does it work for people who get a “spare jab” to be listed for their second jab then ?

@Wingingit15 not entirely sure... I think the software automatically generates a second a second appointment exactly 12 weeks ahead.

@dailydose

I'm a vaccinator, whose day job is within the healthcare sector. I mostly work at the large hubs. We register everyone who attends obviously. We need to register each pt as they walk in the door ( they present their letter to us). We are not like a Gp that have a great database of names and telephones to hand so we can go through a list. Sadly it doesn't work that way. We literally cannot call anyone else up as we have no access to any such list. I'm Hoping this might change. We look to our immediate surroundings if there is a spare dose left, be that security guards, volunteers etc. Sadly we don't have permission to give anyone their second dose early. That may change as well. Just stating what the situation is at present. I don't object to anyone who is in the right place at the right time getting g a first dose, whatever their background.

I don't think anyone has really objected to the volunteers, carers, security etc getting the spare doses... makes sense.

The calling of mates is much harder to accept.

Do NOT feel guilty - feel happy! I hope lots of teachers manage to get vaccinated in this way. Remember, it will also speed things up when it is offered to the 'general population' as lots will already be done. And the more people who are actually out and about everyday who get vaccinated the better, to help build up some herd immunity. It is fantastic news that teachers and police are starting to access the vaccine! Congrats

Must be a lovely position to be in when (it would appear) that most of your family have been vaccinated irrespective of the categories supposedly set out by the Govt. The vaccination programme appears increasingly to be yet another instance where the ‘sharp elbowed’ middle classes are ensuring that they and their friends take priority regardless of any supposed guidelines and the rest of us can wait our turn whilst being constantly told that it doesn’t matter whose arm the jab goes into , we should just be grateful that someone is getting these supposedly “spare” Shots. Presumably the vaccination clinics can keep a running tally of those people who do not attend ? It seems highly unlikely that all the non attendees are at the end of the day so why are they not immediately trying to contact one of the most vulnerable people as soon as they realise that someone hasn’t attended ? Why is it being portrayed as so last minute and therefore unavoidable that they cannot contact those most in need ? Also I haven’t yet seen one of these threads where a vaccine went to , say a waitress or a refuse collector or a supermarket worker or a plethora of other jobs. Without exception the extra jabs are , via NHS staff finding their way into the arms of their relatives/friends in similiar middle class positions

We wait until the end because we just use up whatever is left in a vial, so maybe only a couple of doses. We don't have to use up every single vaccine that was earmarked for that day as extra vials can be rolled over to the next day, but unused doses in an opened vial can't. So if 7 people didn't turn up, we wouldn't then reallocate all 7 of those doses, just whatever is left in the last opened vial, so in this case maybe 2 doses. Depends on how many doses we get out of each vial, as sometimes we actually get 6. It really isn't as straightforward as people who don't work in these centres think, though typical mn'ers always think they know better than the people on the ground! We actually give spare doses to A&E and covid ward staff as their 2nd vaccine, we just ring over and ask anyone free to dash over to us. We never ring family and friends but I personally would not object to that being the case, so long as it was for occupations such as teachers or police etc. Older and vulnerable people will be getting theirs soon anyway, the more we can get through different groups who are actually out and about in society the better imo. It is still going to help you get yours quicker and it benefits everyone - eg if you require the services of the police, or school staff, you might be glad they were protected, improving attendance.

@PrivateHall

Must be a lovely position to be in when (it would appear) that most of your family have been vaccinated irrespective of the categories supposedly set out by the Govt. The vaccination programme appears increasingly to be yet another instance where the ‘sharp elbowed’ middle classes are ensuring that they and their friends take priority regardless of any supposed guidelines and the rest of us can wait our turn whilst being constantly told that it doesn’t matter whose arm the jab goes into , we should just be grateful that someone is getting these supposedly “spare” Shots. Presumably the vaccination clinics can keep a running tally of those people who do not attend ? It seems highly unlikely that all the non attendees are at the end of the day so why are they not immediately trying to contact one of the most vulnerable people as soon as they realise that someone hasn’t attended ? Why is it being portrayed as so last minute and therefore unavoidable that they cannot contact those most in need ? Also I haven’t yet seen one of these threads where a vaccine went to , say a waitress or a refuse collector or a supermarket worker or a plethora of other jobs. Without exception the extra jabs are , via NHS staff finding their way into the arms of their relatives/friends in similiar middle class positions

We wait until the end because we just use up whatever is left in a vial, so maybe only a couple of doses. We don't have to use up every single vaccine that was earmarked for that day as extra vials can be rolled over to the next day, but unused doses in an opened vial can't. So if 7 people didn't turn up, we wouldn't then reallocate all 7 of those doses, just whatever is left in the last opened vial, so in this case maybe 2 doses. Depends on how many doses we get out of each vial, as sometimes we actually get 6. It really isn't as straightforward as people who don't work in these centres think, though typical mn'ers always think they know better than the people on the ground! We actually give spare doses to A&E and covid ward staff as their 2nd vaccine, we just ring over and ask anyone free to dash over to us. We never ring family and friends but I personally would not object to that being the case, so long as it was for occupations such as teachers or police etc. Older and vulnerable people will be getting theirs soon anyway, the more we can get through different groups who are actually out and about in society the better imo. It is still going to help you get yours quicker and it benefits everyone - eg if you require the services of the police, or school staff, you might be glad they were protected, improving attendance.

“ We never ring family and friends but I personally would not object to that being the case, so long as it was for occupations such as teachers or police etc.”

I’m not sure there is any guidance saying that teachers and police should be the priority professions. What about postmen, nursery workers, cleaners etc? What’s your standing to override the jcvi priority list ? Sorry but it just goes back to a class demographic thing

Oh for goodness sake.

Who is this army of people in the NHS/government who have time to make sure every vaccination site including GPs have a fully updated list of people in exactly the correct priority order. How do those administering the vaccine know how many no shows there will be that day and exactly how many doses of vaccine there will be left.

I would understand the concern more if we weren't certain we'd have enough vaccinations to do all the vulnerable groups, but I don't believe that's the case and the timescales to wait are fairly short for the priority groups. I can understand that as a vulnerable person a few weeks or couple of months may seem like forever, but the quicker general infection rates come down, the safer it will be for all of us.

Trying to make this into a utopian process will result in vaccines being thrown away as people won't want to be accused of giving it to the wrong person.

Trying to make this into a utopian process will result in vaccines being thrown away as people won't want to be accused of giving it to the wrong person.

Exactly.

Now is not the time to make perfect the enemy of the good.

The charity I work for was contacted a couple of weeks ago to offer us the vaccine. It is a frontline charity funded by a branch of the NHS and most of our workers are in direct contact with families around our area. A few of us are not and are office based but we were told we could still go so we did. I got a few snide comments from a friend of mine as she is in group 6 so not been yet. As far as I'm concerned I have been called up so I've taken it as the government have stated. My DH will be in group 10 ie everyone else.

'Who is this army of people in the NHS/government who have time to make sure every vaccination site including GPs have a fully updated list of people in exactly the correct priority order. How do those administering the vaccine know how many no shows there will be that day and exactly how many doses of vaccine there will be left.'

Practices have had months to plan this, surely going on previous experience of flu jabs a 'no show' prediction could be estimated. Regarding 'lists' it is 2021 not Victorian times we have technology to facilitate this type if thing. If they've time to get their phones out and ring round family and friends they've time to ring those actually in eligible groups. The actual plan in many practices is to ring eligible people on the day of an appt anyway! their vaccine procurement is rather chaotic so the very same system could be used for any spare.

The priority groups are a priority for a very good reason y'know.

@GetOffYourHighHorse have we known the actual priority list for months- not sure that we have to be fair,
.These practices have they been sitting idly with lots of spare capacity for vaccination planning- again I suspect not.

I thought you of all people would be pleased that such in roads are being made into the vaccination numbers, rather than nitpicking about a few spare doses.

When given a vaccine a persons records need to be updated, surely.

So they access these records online.. but can't have a list of who needs it.

Well no @DareIask just because they have a system based list of patients, doesn't mean it's automatically listed in vaccine priority order - why would it be ?