Longer school days to make up for lost learning

[StitchInLime]

Source: Various newspapers, give it a Google (admittedly with a right wing lean)

Apparently one of the options being considered, nothing set in stone of course but for the purposes of discussion...

AIBU to feel both joy and sadness at the prospect of this (joy for me so I can claw back work hours, joy for children so they can claw back some school time but sadness for my teacher friends and all teachers who will need to add more hours to already heavy workload).

@Lemonsole

The catching up that they need more than anything else is in sports, the arts, socialising, creating, hanging out with each other, Scouts, Guides and having part-time jobs. They're a vital part of teenage life, as preparation for adulthood, and this loss to them is just not being acknowledged. Teenagers need to be with their friends in multiple contexts that aren't just classrooms or guided by adults towards exams.

This.

@borntobequiet

By doing the longer day, the children do an equivalent of an extra day a week at school.

And many private schools have shorter terms. So it all evens out in the end.

Also worth saying that IME the 'extra time per day' in private schools tends to be spent on the things that I am advocating might form part of this extra time - sport, clubs, music, art, extra-curricular opportunities. Not an hour or two extra each day of Maths and English.

The children I teach have had daily lessons (recorded to allow for home life needs) and follow up work in maths and English. I have provided lessons weekly in French, humanities, RE, PSHE, science and music. There have been weekly coding and fitness challenges.
They will need to catch up on social skills, practical art, craft and cooking activities. They need to play games together, building up stamina, team skills and communication. School is not the only place that these can be accomplished.
DS will be collecting GCSE grades one way or another this summer. I am actively encouraging him to plan a summer of lazing, surfing, hiking and titting about with mates. He certainly does not need more school work.
I am interested to see that his (state) school is putting plans in place to make one afternoon each week an afternoon focussed on sport/ work experience/ volunteering/ exercise to encourage a healthy balance. I’m sure it will benefit many pupils.

Far better just to get them all back to normal school after half term.

I agree the government is looking for window dressing on the cheap.

The funding needed to address years and years of teacher shortage and lack of funding to schools is absolutely vast......it would require a seismic change form government and there is no sign of that in any sense. It is all a bit of low level funding which can be trumpeted, but which won’t even touch the sides of the issues that have been there for years.

I agree that people keep barking up the wrong tree with their criticisms and don’t seem to realise the poor condition the fabric of schools is in, or how many subject specialist teachers are missing in secondary schools, or how schools struggle to recruit and retain staff so in many schools there is a constant use of changing supply teachers. But none of these issues will be addressed. Children in many schools will still be short changed and those in more deprived areas, will be further behind.

A death knell for small businesses like mine (dance school) as I cant start weekday classes later and finish later, the children (young teenagers) in the last classes of the evening are still in school. Parents do not want us to run classes on sundays and we already do a full day 9-5.30 on a saturday with the younger children.

@StitchInLime don’t feel sad for me- I won’t be doing any extra hours and I don’t think the unions will allow it. Govt can’t implement this without consulting teachers first.

Will they also be asking nhs staff to work longer hours to catch up with all the missed appts and operations due to covid?

🤷🏽‍♀️

I wish them luck ... I won't be extending my hours and I don't expect them to be funding it.

As for volunteers ... safeguarding anyone? Can't wait to see how that's sorted for tens of thousands of these magical 'volunteers'.

I love MN - Coronavirus - lets follow South Korea etc, they have such fantastic outcomes. Education - ignores South Korea, even though it has one of the best education systems in the world, but has a far longer day, more rigid curriculum, longer terms, shorter holidays, and the kids even have to clean their own classes!

Where do these people come from?
What part of living through a pandemic don't they understand?
Things have changed for now, accept it and face the fact that for a while things will be different.
Neither of my daughter's have/will take their GCSEs, yes it's shit but it's just how it is right now. Grow up.

They may not be able to go back to school after 1/2 term though, so that’s not really a choice.

Far better to invest in high quality teaching to ensure all children reach their potential, and have even further investment for those that don’t.

And even though lm a teacher, I’m totally against catch up sessions. As l said before ‘catching up with what?’ Government imposed target? No chance. Children and teens need to reconnect, socialise, regroup and recover.

Catch ups are a load of bollocks.

They had them at dd’s school over the summer for the y9 going into 10. All her friends went, but she didn’t. No discernible differences in performance 6 months later between them. Except those who went lost the brief period of freedom before we started locking down again.

Ds wouldn't manage this at all, and neither would I want him too, I wouldn't want it for his sister's either.

They won’t want to pay teachers for it.

We’re contracted for 32.5 hours per week. Obviously, we work far longer hours, but our contact time doesn’t go beyond that (we may do clubs, residentials etc but it’s voluntary)

If the kids were in school for an extra 2 hours per day, they’d have to change our contracts. I’d just say no, and work ‘part time’

When it’s over, my own children will not be doing extra hours in school. I don’t see them enough at the moment, due to my longer working commitments, once I don’t have to record lessons until midnight and at weekends I’ll be spending quality time with them (although I’m planning on leaving in July anyway due to exhaustion)

And to the people suggesting I should do more, when do I do that? I work my weekends and record lessons after my children are in bed. Should I stop cooking for my kids, eating a meal with them, reading a bedtime story and walking my dog at the weekend? That’s all I have left.

@Newpuppymummy but that's half an hour more planning, marking and less time for me to get ready the next day!
That comment shows a real lack of understanding.

I already have no lunch break, 10 mins to grab a drink and have a wee if I'm lucky!

@BigWoollyJumpers

I love MN - Coronavirus - lets follow South Korea etc, they have such fantastic outcomes. Education - ignores South Korea, even though it has one of the best education systems in the world, but has a far longer day, more rigid curriculum, longer terms, shorter holidays, and the kids even have to clean their own classes!

The suicide rate in South Korea is shocking. I'm sure there must be a reason for this. I wonder if the pressure of education and subsequent competition and pressure to achieve success in the workplace upon graduation is behind this. I am not sure the South Korean model is ultimately the one we should be following. There are too many unanswered questions here.

@storminabuttercup if I was paid I'd happily go in a couple of days over the holidays. I think they'd be a mixed response but younger teachers I know saving for a mortgage would love extra hours.

TAs would too, with the pro rata calculation and lack of hours available they are never going to make much money but I know lots of mine would love to work through the holidays and get paid

@Lemonsole

The catching up that they need more than anything else is in sports, the arts, socialising, creating, hanging out with each other, Scouts, Guides and having part-time jobs. They're a vital part of teenage life, as preparation for adulthood, and this loss to them is just not being acknowledged. Teenagers need to be with their friends in multiple contexts that aren't just classrooms or guided by adults towards exams.

Even this is going to be difficult. Lots of Scout groups etc have folded in the last year because people didn't want to volunteer for online provision or because their groups have suffered serious financial hardship.

We can't get the people to run these groups. Not ones which are subsedised for poor kids or are cheap and affordable. I don't know where the resources for them are going to be found post-covid.

I would desparately love DS to do swimming again. Unfortunately there was a shortage of classes pre-covid and the chances of being able to get on one now are even lower.

We will get him swimming somehow, but I can't swim so its going to be a real challenge. Its a life skill that could save a life.

It’ll never happen. The government won’t fund it. And there aren’t hoards of adequately trained volunteers waiting in the wings.

Fire, you and a number of others might like the idea of going in and having some extra pay. However, anything would have to be voluntary and staff would have to be found to make it fully viable.

It’s why any scheme which runs out of hours or in school holidays won’t and can’t be what people picture as usual lesson type catch-up. This, plus the fact that many families wouldn’t want their children spending longer at school for school work. It’s never going to happen.

At best, some optional holiday sessions, which are more about socialisation and having experiences together. These don’t need teachers to staff them. I’m sure these would bring benefits to lots of children. Some would choose them as a free childcare option, but often those most in need won’t attend.

RedTooth, I am sad to hear about the Scout groups.

Yes, I can see that in affluent areas, parents volunteer to help. It helps their kids get in and keeps it running for the benefit of their children.

But I can also see in less affluent areas that less people volunteer. Parents might want to send their kids but not to volunteer to help. And you need non-parents then to run the groups - often older adults whose kids have gone past the groups, but who are committed to providing the activities to those in mor ended and not just their own families. And I guess there are more vulnerable people in these groups or oldder people who might not to run things online.

It’s sad, but again, the disadvantaged lose out more than proportionally.

Anyone serious about 'catchup' should be supporting the idea of a limit on class sizes in areas of historic problems in terms of educational attainment.

The problems are largely chronic and structurial within education rather than being caused by covid itself. Extra hours and volunteers are not going to solve this. It needs proper long term resourcing rather than goodwill and sticky plasters. These are closely aligned with economic issues but the government is keen to ignore this because its inconvienent to their policy in other areas and their overall ideology about hardwork and determination being the most important factor in success not your background. Poverty is the elephant in the room no one wants to discuss.

The pandemic has just highlighted the issue.

This suggestion isn't pitched at solving real problems. Its pitched at appeasing middle class parents sick of homeschooling. The very kids with the most capability of catching up without having resources thrown at them...

Education - ignores South Korea, even though it has one of the best education systems in the world, but has a far longer day, more rigid curriculum, longer terms, shorter holidays, and the kids even have to clean their own classes

I get the impression being a parent or a child in South Korea is pretty stressful. Lots of focus on achievement and outcomes.

It has an extremely low birth rate.

@WombatChocolate

RedTooth, I am sad to hear about the Scout groups.

Yes, I can see that in affluent areas, parents volunteer to help. It helps their kids get in and keeps it running for the benefit of their children.

But I can also see in less affluent areas that less people volunteer. Parents might want to send their kids but not to volunteer to help. And you need non-parents then to run the groups - often older adults whose kids have gone past the groups, but who are committed to providing the activities to those in mor ended and not just their own families. And I guess there are more vulnerable people in these groups or oldder people who might not to run things online.

It’s sad, but again, the disadvantaged lose out more than proportionally.

Strangely enough its not quite as straightforward as that. In our experience the engaged parents who are less well off often have more time to offer. They want to help, they work close by and have definitive 9 - 5 jobs. The troups are often more financially vulnerable - and rarely offer the most engaging programmes because of this (and parents are less likely to have as many skills useful to the group to offer). The parents in the more affluent areas commute further and work longer hours and tend to have more of an attitude that they can pay for everything so therefore think its not their responsibility to provide support to the group cos they can chuck money at it. The two issues have long been pronounced across the district.

The problem the pandemic has raised is those less affluent are more likely to be in less secure jobs, so the financial impact has been harder (less ability to do online alternatives too) and the more affluent group has suffered even more from the volunteer issue (online sessions aren't as fun and rewarding in the same way and parents working from home don't want to spend yet MORE time on zoom and are already juggling home schooling) - and even these haven't been immune from a financial hit.

Scouts is massively oversubscribed to the number of places available. If you aren't signed up to by age 3 in some areas, you don't get in. It is only going to be a worse problem. Once a troup folds thats it - its rarely replaced by a new group. The whole infrustruture, knowledge and experience is lost. Its heartbreaking.

[quote motherrunner]@yomommasmomma If you work out the maths my children are in childcare half an hour less than yours then as they start earlier in the day. The point I was making is if not children are in childcare til 5 when I finish at 3.30, if I’m required to work li get hours then they’ll need longer provision in the evening. I don’t really want my children in school from 7.30am to potentially 7pm (I’m not even sure their school would even open that late in the evening.)[/quote]
If you have to stay at school for 2 hours longer (which i doubt it would even be that long really) so leaving at 5pm, then you could pick up your children from their childcare at 6pm ish depending on your commute, so they won't be in childcare for longer than most children of working parents. 7:30am to 6/6:30pm perfectly normal. If you work 9am to 5pm your children tend to be childcare from 8am to 6pm, so this is not unusual and not a reason to stop other kids catching up on their work.

[quote Fatas]@StitchInLime don’t feel sad for me- I won’t be doing any extra hours and I don’t think the unions will allow it. Govt can’t implement this without consulting teachers first.

Will they also be asking nhs staff to work longer hours to catch up with all the missed appts and operations due to covid?

🤷🏽‍♀️[/quote]
Most NHS staff are doing extra hours, yes. The vaccination programme has an enormous amount of additional hours- some on a different contract, some on extra hours on existing contract. The 3 million a week being vaccinated is largely additional work, as are the overflowing hospitals and the enormous amount of staff sickness absence. All leave cancelled. And yes it will be the same for a long time to come and there will be extra catch up just like last summer. My mind boggles how you think that all the extra work is being covered??