When people say they have no idea how they got it...

[Partedinsurprise]

I see this all the time on MN as well as on social media - people saying they have no idea how they could possibly have got covid because they haven't been anywhere or seen anyone. Then it turns out they have been to the supermarket/post office/for a hospital appointment/live with someone who works outside the home etc etc. Are people who genuinely haven't left the house other than for walks outside when they are socially distanced from others really testing positive? Or do people think "I haven't been anywhere or seen anyone" doesn't include the supermarket and so on?

BTW this is not me criticising anyone for going going the supermarket or whatever, I'm just struggling to comprehend the sheer number of people who are adamant they've caught it despite not leaving the house. I think I keep as safe as I can - I get all my food shopping delivered, I live in a busy area so I tend to wear a mask when outside, both DH and I wfh and our DS is not at school. However if I caught it I don't think I would be baffled - I was in the chemist the other day picking up some antibiotics, sometimes it is impossible for me to stay 2m away from people outside unless I walk into traffic...and so on.

I'm just wondering which it is: are people genuinely getting it when they haven't left the house and have only been for walks when they were SD the entire time, OR are people genuinely surprised they are getting it despite supermarket trips and so on because they think if masked and distanced you can't catch it?

TryingNotToPanicOverCovid how many people are in your household? Is it possible it came from school prior to christmas and its slowly passed through the household unnoticed?

I seem to be hearing a number of stories about people getting symptoms after a possibly longer incubation period. I've heard at least 2 or 3 since Christmas (The case in NZ where she developed symptoms AFTER mandatory quaratine and subsequently tested positive after 2 negatives in quarantine).

I think a lot of people get it at the supermarket.

I also think the government should have reiterated guidelines on washing shopping and parcels. They did last year but I haven't seen anything about it this time round.

Why I have not gotten in from grocery shopping is a mystery to me. Until very recently, at least half of the shoppers were not wearing masks. I do, as well as gloves. But we have no delivery in my tiny town, so it's shop or starve.

@TryingNotToPanicOverCovid

I think going in supermarkets is a real risk so wouldn't have done that personally. Anywhere indoors in the same room is.

We didnt wear masks walking but had just begun discussing if we would. I'm not sure a fabric mask protects you much? Id worn a disoosable one for a medical appointment (over a month ago) and an eye test (2 months ago).

I think my story must be pretty unusual tbh.

FYI the mask isn't for your protection, it's to protect others.

There's conflicting advice and evidence regarding what mask works/works best but n95 masks seem to be the best option. Fabric masks with the charcoal filters are good reusable options and better than the blue disposables/single layer fabric masks.

You're definitely not the only one who can't find where they caught it. I have neighbours who are remote as you can be, get one food delivery a week and still caught it. It's likely the packaging, delivery drivers could sneeze or cough on your delivery and voila there's you cause.

I also think the government should have reiterated guidelines on washing shopping and parcels. They did last year but I haven't seen anything about it this time round.

I definitely wouldn't have done that, it would have hugely triggered my OCD which I spent ten years fighting, at one point being unable to leave my house at all because I was too frightened.

RedToothBrush (oooh I know Ive liked your covid posts elsewhere but cant think what or where. My brain is strange) Wow that's interesting.

2 adults 2 children. Last in school 5 and a bit weeks before I tested.

I am wondering if I was closer outside to other people. We used to not use any local paths as you couldn't pass at 2 meters. We still avoid pavements but have been on trails where people would pass at less than 2m. And runners.

Or I had it asymptomatically in the last 3 months and this is "just" asthma. I really want to know.

I think there is a disconnect in many people's minds between what's allowed and what's safe... People say "I've only met my bubble" or "I haven't been anywhere, just getting my supermarket shopping three times a week".

I also remember the Zoe app asking at some point in the summer about the types of places you had been to for the past week. It never asked about who had been to your home though...

For example after being really careful all year, in December I had to have a new washing machine delivered and installed (the old one broke) and also had to get a plumber in to unblock a drain (separately) within a few days. Both were just before we found out about the new virus variant and I was quite worried in the week after waiting to see if I had caught it from either of these tradespeople as they'd been in my home. Luckily I didn't. I also had a brief chat with a neighbour outdoors closer than 2m assuming she'd be safe as she is in her 80s and had been shielding due to COPD - or so I thought, until she said she'd been to buy the newspaper most days! It's so easy to have contact with someone without even thinking...

Post/parcels just seems unlikely because the contents will have been in transit for at least 24 hours since someone else touched them, and if you wash your hands after touching the outer packaging then the risk just seems incredibly tiny indeed.

@RedToothBrush

TryingNotToPanicOverCovid how many people are in your household? Is it possible it came from school prior to christmas and its slowly passed through the household unnoticed?

I seem to be hearing a number of stories about people getting symptoms after a possibly longer incubation period. I've heard at least 2 or 3 since Christmas (The case in NZ where she developed symptoms AFTER mandatory quaratine and subsequently tested positive after 2 negatives in quarantine).

In the NZ case, they found that she'd caught it from another person who was in the isolation hotel not long before she left - they could prove this by sequencing the genes.

Also tbf you could still be testing positive but have had it earlier iyswim. My brother is still testing positive 6 weeks after his initial test.

Agree op and think you’ve had your point proven on here !

“ I think it was from an amazon package altho It could be my doctor husband or one of my 7 kids in school of course , baffling “ paraphrasing / exaggerating there of course

Also as OP says this isn’t about picking on people for going out . I am out doing xyz as per the rules / out at work . I wouldn’t know exactly where I’d caught it but I wouldn’t be suprised and wonder if Tiny Covid particles had somehow floated up through the toilet or something 😂

Wow Sunset. So still in the air?! How long was it in between do you know?

Parted - I wish I could do regular tests now to see if it "goes" or if that was a possibility and now is "just"asthma. Although I do have a cough and no wheezing.

You have so proved your point with this thread though. Repeatedly...

I'm a contact advisor and a few people I've spoken to have been unsure how they've got it, unfortunately most of them are elderly people who don't go out much, so it's likely they have caught it from an asymptomatic family member, who would only be tested if they had symptoms. Most people it's pretty obvious where they've got it from though

You're not meant to test for 90 days after you've received a positive result either. If it comes back positive, you and any contacts will have to isolate again

I just don't get it! Why would someone prefer to believe that they got it from a parcel than in the supermarket, or at work? Everything we know about this virus tells us it is more likely to be the other way round.

It is a different story if you really have been solidly at home and only letting the outside world "in", as it were, via deliveries.

What's that saying? If you hear hooves in Central London, it's most probably horses, not zebras.

I'm a contact advisor and a few people I've spoken to have been unsure how they've got it, unfortunately most of them are elderly people who don't go out much, so it's likely they have caught it from an asymptomatic family member, who would only be tested if they had symptoms

If they're seeing family that's the most likely route though right?

Or they could be like my elderly Gran who is meant to be shielding but goes to buy the paper, to tesco, to the butchers etc and then says "oh but those things are allowed". . Yes. Allowed. Not safe.

Heartofglass. Do you get many like me who haven't had family over (if youve had family over I guess youre then at risk they have it asymptomatically from all their family?)

Do you think people are getting it from deliveries/ outdoor walking? Do you wash everything. 2 of my track and trace people who run to check Im isolating said they are washing things.

I used to wonder if people told contract tracers they "hadn't been anywhere" but then rememebered the corner shop/friend they met... until I got it!

I wouldn't do a real test but absolutely would do a home test or antibody test if I could. I'm still contemplating the antibody one. My fear is a false positive....and to think I've had it when I haven't. Although thats unlikely - me getting it must be pretty unlikely.

I have a family member like this. Drives me bonkers.

"Ooh we aren't going out at all, we don't leave the house ad nauseam"

Next conversation "(her husband) went to Asda yesterday and I saw Sue round the corner quickly for a chat at the gate and me and such and such got a coffee and a walk and we got a delivery and and and and)

@hobbyiscodefordogging

You're extremely unlikely to get it from fleetingly passing someone when out walking or having a runner go past you - obviously we can't say it's impossible but the chance is extremely remote.

I don't currently have close contact with anyone I don't live with. But my children are still going to school and my husband is still going to work, so... 🤷🏻‍♀️ that's how I think it would arrive with us, if it did.

Um you know when it's cold outside and you breath out and produce steam. Watch that. Watch how it mostly hangs in the air. A breeze nay thin it out and move it a shirt distance. That is moisture droplets you have breathed out. Those moisture droplets may only be visible on a cold day, but 's what every single person breathes out all the time. Just because you can't see it on a less cold day dies not mean its there.

Get a runner run up behind you and leave 2 meters, your getting a lung full of air mixed with their droplets. Sadly, fresh air dies not kill covid. You don't need a whole lung full of just someone else's droplets. You only need a miniscule amount to catch most viruses. Then let's think about how much more contagious this new variant is.

Being outside is less risky than being indoors but it's not the minimal risk people assume.

Watch your breath, next time it's cold. See how long it hangs and floats.

I only speak to contacts, so people who are isolating because they have had contact with a positive case. Usually the elderly people I speak to, I've spoken to their family on their behalf and they tell me they don't go out much, but I suppose it only takes once.
I don't actually deal with positive cases, so I can't comment on where they may have got it from. Usually I only end up speaking to positive cases if I'm ringing about a child/ someone who can't talk for themselves for whatever reason, or if they have tested positive but it hasn't gone through on the system yet did a tracer call. They have usually caught it from work/ someone else in their household.
Personally we wash all shopping, and with letters/ parcels we either open them straight away and bin the packaging, or disinfect the packaging if we haven't got time to open it there and then.

@TryingNotToPanicOverCovid

RedToothBrush (oooh I know Ive liked your covid posts elsewhere but cant think what or where. My brain is strange) Wow that's interesting.

2 adults 2 children. Last in school 5 and a bit weeks before I tested.

I am wondering if I was closer outside to other people. We used to not use any local paths as you couldn't pass at 2 meters. We still avoid pavements but have been on trails where people would pass at less than 2m. And runners.

Or I had it asymptomatically in the last 3 months and this is "just" asthma. I really want to know.

Child 1 - Infected last day of school - 18th December. Infects Adult 1 on 28th December (10 days later) Adult 1 infects child 2 on 7th January (10 days later) Child 2 infects Adult 2 on 17th January.

Adult 2 is the only one to show symptoms.
Adult 2 displays symptoms 5 days after exposure (22nd January).
Gets tested on 23rd January and comes back positive.

And there you are, you are into the 5th week on those time scales. Its a possibility. Tight but posible.

Also there are recorded cases of infection between shared air vents in buildings. Has been studied in blocks of flats.

No reason why it couldn't happen between semis or terraced though.

Were in a tiny house and very tactile children. I can't see that I wouldn't have got it from case 1 and 2 over the first 20 days to be honest....

Dumped I'm currently wondering about that.

OP, I think some of the comments on this post do perfectly illustrate that a lot of people are in denial about the level of risk involved in their activities. I think transmission via packages must be rare because, as far as I am aware, the Chinese authorities locked down Wuhan in relation to people but not packages, and that was enough to bring the virus under control there.

I'm not saying you definitely can't contract it through packages, but everything I've read on the subject suggests the risk is negligible. Especially assuming people are practising good hand hygiene.