When people say they have no idea how they got it...

[Partedinsurprise]

I see this all the time on MN as well as on social media - people saying they have no idea how they could possibly have got covid because they haven't been anywhere or seen anyone. Then it turns out they have been to the supermarket/post office/for a hospital appointment/live with someone who works outside the home etc etc. Are people who genuinely haven't left the house other than for walks outside when they are socially distanced from others really testing positive? Or do people think "I haven't been anywhere or seen anyone" doesn't include the supermarket and so on?

BTW this is not me criticising anyone for going going the supermarket or whatever, I'm just struggling to comprehend the sheer number of people who are adamant they've caught it despite not leaving the house. I think I keep as safe as I can - I get all my food shopping delivered, I live in a busy area so I tend to wear a mask when outside, both DH and I wfh and our DS is not at school. However if I caught it I don't think I would be baffled - I was in the chemist the other day picking up some antibiotics, sometimes it is impossible for me to stay 2m away from people outside unless I walk into traffic...and so on.

I'm just wondering which it is: are people genuinely getting it when they haven't left the house and have only been for walks when they were SD the entire time, OR are people genuinely surprised they are getting it despite supermarket trips and so on because they think if masked and distanced you can't catch it?

We can only really have picked it up by buying something that had been handled by someone with the virus imo. The more I think about it the more I think this must be the case. We've not been in close contact with anyone. I'm very careful regarding that.

Its threads like this that make me think I MUST have had it but a asymptomatic. Partner works outside the home and commutes on train each way every days and then works in a busy construction team where social distancing is pretty impossible (eg carrying heavy concrete between two). When restaurants and pubs are open we go out a few times a week to them, we went on holiday abroad in the summer, I walk and run daily and keep my distance but definitely pass people closer than 2metres when needed. I do a weekly supermarket shop, pop into corner shop for top ups 2 or 3 times a week, get public transport and we have workmen in our house at the moment as we are renovating. I wear a mask when I have to (shops and transport) but not when out and about. Antibac on my way into shops but I'm not fastidious about hand washing. OH normally forgets by the time hes cycled home from the station to wash his hands when he gets in. How can we not have had it when people claim theyve caught it walking past someone in the street

english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html?ssm=TW_CC

Not quite sure with links but this explains indoor transmission well I think.

@Tryingnottopanic - sorry but I'm interested in catching it outdoors. So your children don't go to school, or see anyone (play in playgrounds etc) and both parents work from home?

We can only really have picked it up by buying something that had been handled by someone with the virus imo. The more I think about it the more I think this must be the case. We've not been in close contact with anyone. I'm very careful regarding that.

I'm sorry but all the evidence suggests that it is far more likely you got it from walking round the supermarket. Presumably you were also practising good hand hygiene so even if you touched something with the virus on it, you'd have sanitised or washed hands before it went to your mouth.

I just don't think people realise how easily it spreads indoors tbh. The masks and SD have given everyone a bit of a false sense of security.

@TryingNotToPanicOverCovid no I'm sorry but I just don't buy that. It's 10pm, we spend 20 minutes in an almost empty shop once a fortnight and have no contact with anyone in that time. I'm more inclined to believe we bought items that had been handled by someone with the virus.

India its crackers isnt it. We've put our lives on hold for a year and Ive still caught it. If its at least 1 in 3 have it asymptomatically thats possible. Or just luck.

How can we not have had it when people claim theyve caught it walking past someone in the street

Well that's kind of how I feel!

My BIL is a doctor and worked throughout the first wave, directly with covid patients, initially with no real PPE. He never tested positive.

@Partedinsurprise as I keep telling you we don't have any contact with other people during our 20 minute in the shop. It's late and there's barely anyone there. And yes of course we wash hands when we come home but we don't wash the items we've bought!

we spend 20 minutes in an almost empty shop once a fortnight and have no contact with anyone in that time.

I think your 20 minutes is the key there actually.

Well, I've been sent for a test on the Zoe app, and if I come out as positive I won't know where I got it from.

The rest of the family go nowhere.
I do click and collect rather than going into shops.
I do sometimes go for walks, but I take a path where very few other people go on, and when I see them coming I go onto the side, which is easily 2m away.
I go to work with max 2 other people who haven't tested positive, and am in a different room from them. If we do speak we're 2m away and a bit more...

However I can accept that I might be unlucky and pick it up from one of them. I still wouldn't know where it had come from though.

@Partedinsurprise

I guess I'm wondering how many people actually get it from deliveries and post etc, as surely if that was a common transmission route our cases wouldn't be dropping even in lockdown.

I maintain I wouldn't be surprised if I got it if I was regularly going to a supermarket. That must be one of the most common ways to pick it up surely.

I think it will turn out that transmission can occur via surfaces, though is less transmissable this way which is why lockdown is causing cases to drop. The virus has been detected on food packages in research. The logical approach is that cardboard is less likely to be a risk than plastic. So if you are at risk it might be worth considering a soapy wash for those, or quarantine for 72 hours.

as I keep telling you we don't have any contact with other people during our 20 minute in the shop. It's late and there's barely anyone there. And yes of course we wash hands when we come home but we don't wash the items we've bought!

But there are other people present, so even if you don't have close contact with them you'll be in contact via the air conditioning and lingering virus particles in the air you are breathing.

And yes you may not wash the packaging but presumably you do always wash your hands before eating, so it wouldn't matter.

Surely you can see that objectively the supermarket is a lot more likely than the packaging, given there is plenty of evidence that people catch it indoors even when SD and mask wearing, but zero evidence anyone has caught it from packaging? Why would packaging be more likely?

Diana - yep both work from home (me part time) since March.

Neither in school this year (most kids aren't are they!??!) and we refused to send my youngest to primary when they opened that day in January.

I am an anomaly and have been so terified this week as we've spent a year trying to avoid the virus. I've several risk factors so we've literally avoided being indoors this year. We sent kids to school last year and we were less anxious August/september. Last year but certainly seen noone this year.

I tested to "prove" I didn't have it as my asthma was getting worse and in my head I'd got anxious about needing to see someone and wanted to avoid a hospital etc etc I was so shocked it was positive.

However I can accept that I might be unlucky and pick it up from one of them. I still wouldn't know where it had come from though.

Are you all routinely tested at work?

I'm sorry but all the evidence suggests that it is far more likely you got it from walking round the supermarket.

I work in a supermarket. We have had a few cases but by no means rife.
So walking round the supermarket for 20 mins in a mask obviously cannot be a high-risk activity or all the staff would have caught it!
We are vigorous about hand-washing and sanitising, and mask-wearing.

Read my comment above about packaging though.

I think you've proved your point very well, OP.

So many comments or threads for months with people saying "I haven't been anywhere" then reveal they either have a partner working out of the home or children in school or both and that they or the partner go to supermarkets.

Crazy.

So walking round the supermarket for 20 mins in a mask obviously cannot be a high-risk activity or all the staff would have caught it!

As most people who catch it are asymptomatic, they could have done and not realised it.

I know the virus has been detected on packaging, I don't dispute that, but given the cast iron evidence that this is an airborne virus which spreads best indoors, with the length of time spent indoors with others being more pertinent than masks or SD, I don't see how anyone testing positive recently who had been in a supermarket would think it was more likely they were infected by packaging.

@Partedinsurprise

However I can accept that I might be unlucky and pick it up from one of them. I still wouldn't know where it had come from though.

Are you all routinely tested at work?

No we're not, although of the other people that come in, the main one is tested regularly through a different scheme.

I go into work about 2-4 times a week. 2 times there literally will be no one else in the public area of the building. The other two, I'll wave at the other person on the way past, might stop and say "hi" from the doorway, and then go into my office where I'm the only one there.
We also have regulations of wearing masks all the time in the office and washing hands on entrance.

@Tryingnottopanicovercovid - it's strange, but I'm glad that you have a mild case and don't feel too bad. Hope you are back to normal soon 💐

Thanks Diana. Part of me still is in disbelief. I honestly wish I could retest. And then antibody test.... and test my family....

I have been pinged by the app on my phone twice - both times from when I have spent more than 15 mins in a shop (I get most things delivered, these were two times I was picking up click and collect orders from shops and had to queue).
I wfh, DC were off school for more than 2 weeks both times.
I have never tested positive or had any symptoms.

@Partedinsurprise

While you're correct that a larger proportion of positive cases are asymptomatic than symptomatic, the fact remains that cases in supermarket workers are not especially frequent and are not spreading amongst workers who are in store for seven hours or more a day. That's my reasoning for supermarkets -with all the measures in place - not to be high risk. Can't speak for corner stores etc - I avoid them myself.

That's my reasoning for supermarkets -with all the measures in place - not to be high risk.

But objectively, still higher risk than packaging.

Being outside and 2m distant isn’t the magic formula you can still catch covid. Think Of the time’s you are more than 2m from someone and you can still smell their perfume or their vape in the air. It can just be unlucky that you do that with an infected person.