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EU has triggered article 16 over controls on vaccine exports

630 replies

soundofsilence1 · 29/01/2021 18:56

Breaking news on sky
news.sky.com/story/covid-19-eu-introduces-controls-on-vaccine-exports-to-northern-ireland-12202656

OP posts:
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7
GamingNewb · 30/01/2021 09:51

They're reversing their reversal though! And the WHO are now criticising their reversal of the reversal.

bellinisurge · 30/01/2021 09:52

@GamingNewb , you've got tied up with double negatives, I think

RedToothBrush · 30/01/2021 09:52

If we had still been part of Europe we would have been fucked in terms of getting vaccine supply. This is a huge advertisement for brexit and likely other countries will now bay to get out. And the eu will know it.

They now have to pay billions more because we aren’t, and now their economies continue under threat because they can’t get vaccine supply. It’s a massive negative to be part of the eu.

Thats not far wrong. However i do think there would be a different argument going on.

I do think that the UK would have acted alone to order vaccine anyway simply because we were doing the research and there was already awareness of how much lockdown was costing the country. And that the crisis was going to last a long time. By July it was already very apparent the UK were having more problems than anywhere else in the EU. A slow moving EU wouldn't have been good enough and a row would have broken out with the UK just getting on with it because we could and because thats always been our mentality.

We would then be having a massive argument about whether the UK was being fair by hogging all the EU’s vaccine due to a failure by the EU and it would reignite the sores of the referendum and Nigel would very much be front and centre making a fuss. We almost certainly would have unilaterally approved vaccines earlier than others as the research side of things would have been at a similar point. Our internal forces would have dictated early approval in exactly the same way and they have always been stronger than ties to the EU.

The UK has been more nationalist than other EU countries in a number of ways. The concept of 'our' vaccine would still be there and the concept of not wanting to give it to the EU would be there. The whole referedum was based on our island psyche.

Im not convinced the crisis we have is an advert for Brexit in quite the way you think though. I don't think anyone (bar Hungary) will consider outright leaving because of this alone (and even Hungarys issues are long standing and to do with historic issues over thr Russia sphere of influence). But it certainly a threat to the running of the commission. And its more of an issue for domestic party politics across Europe. We have many leaders struggling for public support. Macron most notably has an election to think of next year and the polls are not as favorable as hed like. And thats more why countries are going nuts because its damaging their reelection chances. It is leading to rises in conspiracy theory nonsense too as disgruntled voters feel alienated from politicians. Its a climate of general uneasy unrest. For example you are unlikely to see the Netherlands seriously contemplating leaving the EU but you are likely to unrest. Same for Belgium. That unrest threatens the power of the commission itself with the liklihood of the commission getting a big (much needed) restructuring on the cards. This may well weaken the ambition of the commission for greater cooperation. It may weaken support for Free Movement. Especially if we see a Le Pen government for example.

But i dont think it would destroy the EU. More bring about some of the changes that the UK has rallied for, for years. Ironically.

I think the thing for me is those people shocked at the EU acting in a protectionist way right now. The EU itself has always been protectionist. Thats the point of it!

There is no other issue atm more important than covid in Europe. Everyone wants vaccine and they want it yesterday. And there isn't enough even if you included the uk supplies. Every single government is going to push as hard as possible to get it. No one is going to play the gentlemen going 'you first'. No one can afford to. An 'at all costs' mentality is one that always undermines cooperation in any situation. It will mean that what is written in law is ignored by politicians. Thats always bad.

There are long term ramifications for this. Hungary being pushed closer to Russia is the one I'm most aware of.

My feeling is that a wave of politics that exploit inequality is more likely through Europe. I am not convinced that it has seen off what has happened in the UK and the US with disinformation and threats to democracy fully. But i remain to be convinced it will yet led to the break up of the EU in the way Brits think because relationships within the EU due to land borders are different. But i do think a wave of nationalism and racism within the EU more possible. And i do think unity within the eu will be tested with several new blocks of competing power arising is possible. The centrist balance of power with strongly aligned mutual interest might fracture. That would produce difficulty that would last for years. Basically a break out of the culture war which has plagued US and UK politics with a huge divide in consensus is more likely. That overall weakens the EU.

But i stress here thats not necessarily in the UK's favour. A weakening means things could go our way. But they also could make things even more difficult too as we are blamed by some for the crisis rather than looking towards the internal sources of cock up. Particularly if there is a trade war. We are already in a weak position.

A trade war is not good for the EU. Its not good for the UK. A trade war will intensify any existing fractures and internal conflict and weaken positions further as it will hamper everyones ability to produce vaccine and delay an already struggling vaccination system rather than solving the problem.

The main beneficiaries of an EU / Uk trade war are China and Russia. Its not terribly good for the US though there may be some. Its not helpful to world stability at a time the US is struggling on that front.

Focusing efforts on a trade war rather than having a big conference to see what more can be done everywhere to scale things up more quickly and bridge the gap between high demand and steady high production capacity is whats really needed. How did the uk government overcome problems? What lessons do we need to learn and put in immediately? Is there more capacity that can be found in the EU and UK? Etc etc.

I have thought for a long time that the referedum highlighted how few people understood how either the uk or EU functioned. Nor how politics and law interact and definitely a problem with understanding the issue of trade, supply chains and logistics. How international cooperation was central to political stability.

But that existed in both leavers and remainers and is yet to be resolved as far as i see it. Tribalism over examining the nature of a problem isn't going away any time soon.

Most ironically for me the issue of the Irish border has always been central to the referedum question. Its not lost on me how its been an issue for 4 years and an article written to protect both Ireland and Ni has been a massive problem since the 1st January settlement was used in a way which could have deeply damaged both.

Also... It might be wise for those in the UK to be fully aware that the Deal with the EU is NOT final. It yet to be ratified. At the moment it is being applied provisionally. We are still at risk of a No Deal scenario...

GamingNewb · 30/01/2021 09:53

No, I don't think I am.

Eu reversed their decision to block vaccines
Then this morning they've reverse that reversal, and put it back to: yes we are blocking you after all

EU vaccine export row: Bloc backtracks on controls for NI www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55865539

EU has triggered article 16 over controls on vaccine exports
GamingNewb · 30/01/2021 09:54

That was in response your post @bellinisurge

bellinisurge · 30/01/2021 09:58

Export controls in vaccines that don't invoke Article 16 of the protocol.
The fuck up that has been reversed is invoking article 16.

ProfessorPootle · 30/01/2021 09:59

They’re not triggering Article 16 but they are putting export checks in place to stop vaccines being exported. This is the map for export restrictions (which speaks volumes). Theyre also including US, Canada, Aus, NZ and other wealthy 3rd countries.

EU has triggered article 16 over controls on vaccine exports
bellinisurge · 30/01/2021 09:59

We are not in the EU so if it wants to take that stance generally that's up to it . What it can't do is fuck with the NI Protocol

ProfessorPootle · 30/01/2021 10:01

Pfizer are considering shifting all vaccine production from the EU to the US, this is the only vaccine currently being produced in the EU I think?

GamingNewb · 30/01/2021 10:02

It's still the EU saying we're blocking your vaccines ... no we're not.... yes we are (just using a different route to do it)

GamingNewb · 30/01/2021 10:02

@ProfessorPootle

Pfizer are considering shifting all vaccine production from the EU to the US, this is the only vaccine currently being produced in the EU I think?

Haha. THAT would be gloriously brilliant

ProfessorPootle · 30/01/2021 10:03

NI are not exempt from restrictions on the map though which is not permitted under the NI protocol? Think it can only be mainland UK?

3asAbird · 30/01/2021 10:04

I'm a bit confused as its contradictory.

So they not invoking article 6 and stopping vaccines being delivered under the contractually agreements of UK or other countries orders.

However they personally have authorise all vaccines made in EU exported outside if the EU which are products made by a private company's ie az and phizer to fulfill private contacts with lots of other countries that were ordered and paid for in full before the EU.
The contact says AZ have until end of quarter 1 to deliver the vaccines.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 30/01/2021 10:06

Who knows any more?

The bottom line remains that the EU were extremely slow in confirming any orders; spent months wrangling over the cost per jab, knowing that every euro saved would come at the cost of the free/at cost supply to poorer countries - to which the EU has still not paid anything like a fair share; when this became clear they acted extremely aggressively.

None of that has anything to do with the UK; all of that should have been dealt with between the EU and AZ and the EU should have dealt with the production issues the same way as Boris did... calmly, telling us all that such things were to be expected in such a novel circumstance... a message we have heard repeatedly since December.

It isn't about the legal small print, it's about the heat of reaction in a crisis. And whatever else he has undoubtedly done wrong, Boris went with calm reassurance. EU commission has not!

The supposed supreme diplomats lost all diplomacy!

Dongdingdong · 30/01/2021 10:12

Bad news, kids - not seen a single Remain voice on here standing up for the EU on this

@bellinisurge You must have missed these comments then, from earlier in the thread:

“I mean fun to watch a pharmaceutical company take on the EU. Very pleased the EU are playing hardball”

“Have seen that they are backtracking which I actually think is a shame”

“EU unlucky too yield at Astra Zeneca Belgium plant lower than hoped. They are now trying to protect their citizens just as our U.K. govt do”

“The EU can do whatever it wants. The vaccines are being produced on their turf and they are owed them. They signed a contract with AZ”

bellinisurge · 30/01/2021 10:13

I stand corrected @Dongdingdong , that must have been overnight or early morning and I missed it.

Dongdingdong · 30/01/2021 10:15

Good post, @CuriousaboutSamphire.

Justthebeerlighttoguide · 30/01/2021 10:17

I think another threat to peoples lives is a reason for brexit - and people in the eu bloc wont take much more of this casually or cack handed approach to their lives

PicsInRed · 30/01/2021 10:19

@bellinisurge

I suppose if you are still in a 1950s Brexit cult you assume that people who disagree with you are also in a cult and can't criticise the EU for this fuck up. Bad news, kids - not seen a single Remain voice on here standing up for the EU on this.
I'm sure we can all agree that the 1940s EU wasn't one we wanted to be a member of and that any such sentiments in the 1950s were less "cult" and more a lingering side eye at what had only just come to pass.

A healthy caution, if you will. Hmm

Justthebeerlighttoguide · 30/01/2021 10:19

Boris went with calm reassurance. EU commission has not!

^^ They are in a mass panic, Ursual is coming under heavy fire, they have cocked up - they tried to force everyone to go with them....then cocked up and left everyone high and dry.

Dongdingdong · 30/01/2021 10:20

@bellinisurge always happy to help Wink

Motherdare · 30/01/2021 10:21

If it was the other way round and the EU had moved quickly to get vaccines and UK had dragged its feet, there would be pages and pages of gloating from remainers

This is absolutely true. A lot of remainers seem to actively want to UK to fail so they can be proved right.

RedToothBrush · 30/01/2021 10:23

@ProfessorPootle

Pfizer are considering shifting all vaccine production from the EU to the US, this is the only vaccine currently being produced in the EU I think?
What a load of misleading fucking nonsense.

The vaccine is Pfizer / BioNTech. BioNTech is a German company. They own their own factories. They have expanded more. Big Pharma rival Sanofi has just got the greenlight to manufacture the Pfizer vaccine in some of its facilities.

The idea that the Pfizer vaccine will be all made in the US which this poster infers is rot.

samanthawashington · 30/01/2021 10:25

Thankfully the EU has done a u-turn on article 16, but they Spanish prime minister is saying we are all in the same boat and need to share the vaccine stocks more evenly. The wrong thinking in that, is that our death rate is much higher than many eu countries (although I think the reporting of figures has disproportionately raised our level, and I don't for one minute believe the Chinese or Russian figures) and therefore our need for the vaccine is greater.

RedToothBrush · 30/01/2021 10:28

@Motherdare

If it was the other way round and the EU had moved quickly to get vaccines and UK had dragged its feet, there would be pages and pages of gloating from remainers

This is absolutely true. A lot of remainers seem to actively want to UK to fail so they can be proved right.

This is also nonsense.

I want to be wrong. I fear that success in one area will conceal real failure in others.

I also acknowledge that post 1st January there is no such thing as leavers and remainers. If you live in the uk you are now a leaver. That includes EU citz who are resident. The national interest is to 'make Brexit a success'. But you can only work with the shitty stick you are given with and it does not solve the structural issues in various industries that leaving created but has yet to resolve (like export of fresh produce like fish) and somehow has to do without going bankrupt first with little to no support from government.

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