EU has triggered article 16 over controls on vaccine exports

[soundofsilence1]

Breaking news on sky
news.sky.com/story/covid-19-eu-introduces-controls-on-vaccine-exports-to-northern-ireland-12202656

People expect the EU to just shrug their shoulders and say “oh ok then. Well get us the rest of the vaccines when you can”.

Far from it. Hold AZ to account if they have broken their contract but don't drag other contracted parties into it and don't start threatening export bans and pulling shit like art16.

@Miljea

So- the EU is acting to do what it can to keep CV vaccines within the EU, to be administered to EU citizens- is that what I'm reading?

It wants UK manufactured (and contractually due to the UK) stock to be taken away from the UK and transported to the EU for use on EU citizens.

It is also considering seizure of private pharmaceutical company assets to ensure no EU manufactured stock reaches non exempt countries the UK.

There should be process in place to prevent the last minute “oh we’re a bit short today” crap.
But it is not like the supplier can magic out the vaccines out of the thin air, even if the process is faulty. AZ were giving official notices about issues in their supply chain from early December, if I remember correctly.

BUT if it had been the other way around, the Uk would be morally within its right to evoke that very same article and then that would be ok.

But it wasn't the other way round, was it? I get that you will not criticise the grotesque incompetence of the EU, and hence are resorting to hypothetical scenarios. But it just won't do.

And no, even in your invented scenario, the UK would not have been 'morally right' to invoke a clause only intended to be used as a last resort. There's a reason the EU's actions tonight have received widespread condemnation, including from places you wouldn't normally expect to find it.

If the UK had tried to stop exports of the vaccine people would have been SREAMING.

@DasPepe

I love it how suddenly everyone is pro-Leave and criticizing how people could have made decisions “and not realize the consequences”.

Suddenly everyone is an effing expert on Articles and legal details. The vitriol is giving off fumes.
It’s like people are just set to be angry at whatever is set by their media. UK being fed one version, Germany another.

Everything is a comparison “ are we doing it better” down to body count.

There is a lot EU does that is great and a lot it done which is not.
Same with ANY government. But this sudden “oh i knew EU was just a bully” like it’s Gareth from the 5th glass braking your nose for lunch money.
It’s lot one person! And by saying EU is a bully, you’re saying UK is a victim. Oh yes poor Boris! And Prithi Patel - oh yes, look at her welcoming HK citizens (whilst booting out Windrush victims). Oh yes poor then. In fact I don’t understand why Cummings had to go, he should have tested his eyesight, in fact now that I think about it, I can see why he would have driven all that way. . .

I'm not sure this is fair. This isn't a matter of comparing, the UK did their procurement, the EU did theirs. We've had supply challenges as well, however didn't impose restrictions on the EU to solve these. The reality is the arguments around leave / remain have been toxic for years, but some of us (myself included) have been pro-brexit from the start. I've spent 15 years working with this kind of crap and I'm frankly glad to see the back end of it. Its exasperating after a certain point particularly when under the veneer of solidarity a very different reality has always existed regardless of what 'messaging' comes out of Brussels / key EU member states..

Or SCREAMING even.

I’m months, maybe years from getting the vaccine. Maybe I’m also bias because I hate when suppliers fuck about and pull shit like this. There should be process in place to prevent the last minute “oh we’re a bit short today” crap. Especially for this,

This is it to me. AZ are the bad guys here. What catastrophic event happened that they cannot live up to the contract? Shrugging your shoulders and saying it just didn't work out isn't good enough. Where has the money that the EU paid to ensure they received the vaccine gone? Why is this only coming to light now months after the contract was signed?

You can bleat and gloat about the EU being bullies or whatever else but at the end of the day AZ have failed to deliver and failed to give(as far as I am aware a good enough reason as to why they have failed to deliver). I saw on another thread people saying poor AZ, the EU sullying their name, well no. You can't just take a contract and a very important one at that and then say whoopsie when you due to deliver. You deserve a bad name if that is how you conduct your business.

I always thought the EU would implode eventually. But not quite so quickly. It's days are numbered.

So this is fake news and this thread should be pulled.

@DasPepe The point is that the EU have spent the last four years saying that there must never be a hard border on the island of Ireland.

I don't think it[s helpful to invent hypothetical reverse scenarios and imagine how the UK and other countries would react....that's just fantasy and removes us from the reality at hand.

@titan89

So this is fake news and this thread should be pulled.

No...it did happen. It has now been reversed. Lets not try to erase history.

It's called running a factory. That's why contracts say best efforts. If something breaks it breaks. Likewise when Pfizer need to reconfigure to meet future demand they do so knowing they can't deliver for a couple of weeks.

@IDontMindMarmite

I don't think it[s helpful to invent hypothetical reverse scenarios and imagine how the UK and other countries would react....that's just fantasy and removes us from the reality at hand.

I think that's the whole point!

AZ are the bad guys here. What catastrophic event happened that they cannot live up to the contract?

The yields from the Belgium factory aren’t high so there is knock on impact to amount they can supply to the EU. Issues do occur in the manufacturing process. Why is such a bloody surprise there could have been issues? I’m sure these vaccines are complex to make, it’s not making biscuits.

@deragod

Firstly, EU is concerned that due to lobbying UK is reciving more vaccines than stated in the contract while UE is receiving non. Secondly, this protocol was demanded by UK. Funny to be upset about its existence. Thirdly, it was said loudly and clearly that after Brexit, UK will be a third party. Brexiters very happy about that. That's the treatment third party receives. I don't understand this whining that EU should, even after Brexit, treat UK differently than any other third party.

And yep. Situation is bad, although it's not like NI was in the centre of discussion in 2016.

@deragod Firstly, the UK's supply is none of the business of the EU as, like the EU, the UK a few vaccine suppliers and its own private contracts. The EU's concern is with their own supply and if their suppliers are not meeting this, the EU has mechanisms to address this that doesn't involve dragging the UK into it. Secondly, the UK isn't upset about the protocol. The UK and Ireland were concerned with the involving of a particular article of the protocol which would introduce a hard border, something even the EU had been trying to avoid in the past four years of talks. For the EU to invoke this, is at odds with their previous rhetoric. Thirdly, the UK knows it is a 'third party' and this, in terms of vaccines, as worked in the UK's favour.

Check your facts.

Even biscuit factories can have issues.

[quote CaptainMarvelDanvers]@DasPepe

Except there have been a few people on here who are currently studying law or have already studied it. You have to learn about the EU, the institutional framework, the sources of law etc.. Bloody dull but also makes you realise what a massive mess it is.

It makes you long to reread Donoghue V Stevenson for the millionth time.[/quote]
The 🍦and the 🐌😅😅😅

@DasPepe AZ are not producing widgets this is a complex product involving many stages and critically involving unpredictable bio cultures. Sometimes the yield from the culture can vary , this is particularly true in new and untested manufacturing plants. They are supplying this vaccine at cost under a no profit clause agreed with Oxford University.

They are not ‘pulling a fast one’ they are trying to supply a brand new vaccine during a global pandemic which involves establishing new supply chains and creating new production lines and they are doing this for no profit . Frankly I am not surprised they are cheesed off with the EU attitude.

Regarding AZ being unable to fulfil its order.

The ‘catastrophic event’ is (as far as I understand) a problem with yield at two European plants. It’s normal for some plants to perform better than others, teething trouble, glitches.

The point is, the uk plant has had time to fix the glitches because we ordered earlier?

from my understanding AZ are failing to deliver because the Commission signed their contract 3 months after the UK. We had teething problems at our plants, but we've had more time to deal with them.
The EU has been slow to act and is getting the teething problems now.
Perfectly simple, I'd have thought

sorry countess cross thread

@LetItGoGo

It's called running a factory. That's why contracts say best efforts. If something breaks it breaks. Likewise when Pfizer need to reconfigure to meet future demand they do so knowing they can't deliver for a couple of weeks.

I don't think whoops a machine broke is a good enough reason for delivering less than half of what was agreed when the EU has paid hundreds of millions of euro to expedite its manufacture. Jesus you have people on mumsnet seething when companies don't post their purchases the next day but this is fine. shit happens, I can't understand why the EU are annoyed .

I think there must have been some very interesting phone calls going on in and out of Brussels tonight, even if the EU have backtracked on playing about with article 16/Good Friday Agreement somewhat (according to Sky and ITV).

If ITV reports were correct, the EU omitted to tell Boris, Leo and the NI MPs that they were planning to implement controls at the NI/Eire borders.

Australia aren't too chuffed about today's actions either, though many appreciate that the EU's need for vaccines ASAP is greater than theirs.