Vaccine queue jumping making me feel angry

[Snog]

SIL has been vaccinated already- she is a healthy 40 year old, works from home, no caring responsibilities.

It's made me feel surprisingly angry. I'm not clear how she managed it at this point. On a personal level I like SIL so am pleased for her but god I feel angry at the injustice.

I know some people have picked up "spare" doses but surely even the spare doses should be managed according to health priorities? Eg at least finding someone in groups 1-9 to vaccinate if not in groups 1-4.

AIBU to feel angry about this?

How many threads do we need on this?

On other threads, people actually involved with the vaccination programme pointed out that with a 20 minute window to find an arm to put a vaccine in (and many hubs don't close until 9pm) ringing around people who might or might not be available, just isn't feasible, and will lead to the vaccines going in the bin.

If you want to be angry @Snog, be angry with the people who didn't show up for their appointments and so risked the vaccine being wasted.

You SIL being vaccinated now, means that someone behind her in the queue will get vaccinated earlier than they would otherwise. And she's one less person who'll be out there potentially spreading the virus to you and others.

I am so sick of people posting their opinions like they are the covid police.

Surely that's one less person to be vaccinated?
I wish everyone would stop turning on each other.

@Snog

It was a "spare " dose at the end of the day

The spars need to be used rather than wasted and thrown in the bin. It's often not known how many spares there will be until it's late in the day. Often not enough time to work through a priority list.

Surely it's far far better that someone gets it than it gets wasted.

It's not queue jumping, just a case of right place, right time.

No need to be angry at no shows. ( We don't need more general public bashing either..)

It's usually extra from the vials/ phials.

There was someone from a GP's surgery talking on the radio about this. and they said it is sometimes quite difficult to use all their vaccine stock.

We have heard that some people aren't turning up for appointments and they have vaccine left over. They have people on standby who can come in quickly and be vaccinated, but even then they might have vaccine left over which must be thrown.

People being vaccinated benefits all of us, I would far rather your SIL had the jab than it being wasted, however young and healthy she is.

This is EXACTLY the thinking that allows perfectly good food to go in the bin while people starve on the doorstep.

Thankfully in the last couple of years we have started to address this injustice and blinkered thinking.

Please don’t let this Perry jealousy mean we bin precious spare vaccine created by totally unpredictable “no-shows”.

A lot of whats going on is nothing to do with spare doses. In my extended family one healthcare worker who works remotely has had himself, his teenage daughter and his mother all done by pulling strings. One was done at his friend who is a GP- despite the fact I know they hadn't enough doses for all the over 80s as my uncle is a patient. His child was done when he went for his at the NHS vaccine centre and he'd got a mate to get her an appointment. According to him they are all doing it so why shouldn't he. It's a fairly rural area and as always it's all about who you know.

I would normally roll my eyes but then policemen, teachers, firefighters are more in need.
I did laugh when I saw something on Twitter the other day saying that in one area the stats looked like they had vaccinated more people than were on the NHS payroll and it must've been a statistical error.

@trilbydoll

My parents are in their 60s and they can't leave the house quickly! I once phoned my mum in a panic because I was stuck in traffic and asked her to pick up dd2 (5 minutes drive from her house) and her response was "but I don't have any shoes on"! Honestly she'd never make it for a time linked vaccine

The idea of the SIL just hanging around the vaccine centre in a shady way has really made me laugh. If anyone wants me I'll be opening the door at our local GP surgery!

Not all over 60s are the same though, I get calls from school to pick up sick GC from time to time and I am out the door in a minute.

I’m getting increasingly pissed off with people moaning about who is and who isn’t priority, moaning because someone has had the vaccine and not them. People saying teachers and shop workers should be priority. No ones life is more special than another persons but some people are more likely to become seriously ill so it makes sense to start vaccinating the vulnerable first? Of course lots of people want it now but not everyone can be vaccinated in one day so we need to wait our turn.

OP, she was lucky to get the vaccine but it was a spare/leftover vaccine and would have gone in the bin if not used up. Why not feel pleased that she now has protection agains such a awful virus?

@museumum

This is EXACTLY the thinking that allows perfectly good food to go in the bin while people starve on the doorstep.

Thankfully in the last couple of years we have started to address this injustice and blinkered thinking.

Please don’t let this Perry jealousy mean we bin precious spare vaccine created by totally unpredictable “no-shows”.

I haven't seen anyone suggest vaccine goes in the bin just that it goes to people in priority groups. The people getting their friend/relative who is a GP to give them a dose aren't saving it from going in the bin they are taking it from a person who is entitled to it.

A pharmacist was interviewed on Sky yesterday, his pharmacy is doing 1000 vaccines a week and will be going up to 5000 as soon as he gets enough vaccine. When asked about the "spare" doses he said it isn't a problem, they have a list of eligible people and no need to waste doses, he said they are allowed to go down a category to give it so as currently they are doing the top 4 categories I take it that means they can take people from category 5.

It's great he has a list. We don't. We have a list of people expected to come for their vaccine. We are a hub and people book for their vaccine, they are not invited so we don't have a list of people we can bump up the list. So yes, we have to find anyone we can. This includes 40yo, and younger. Mainly because anyone in an at risk category is nowhere near a hospital if they can help it.

I think it's great they make use of every dose they can get and it's of course better to give it to someone than bin it.

I can't help feeling disappointed it all comes down to who you know, though if they're really calling in family and friends. Maybe any other kind of a queue/wait list type system just wouldn't work though, who knows? If lots of people were allowed to sign up to be on such a list, when it comes to it would they really turn up.

You SIL being vaccinated now, means that someone behind her in the queue will get vaccinated earlier than they would otherwise That could only work if the person who should have got the SIL's vaccine doesn't get one, otherwise there are still exactly the same number of people in the queue.

This is a really daft attitude. The vast majority of people are getting vaccinated in priority order. The leftover doses just need to get banged out as fast as possible to anyone, given that everyone needs vaccinating anyway. It simply isn’t worth adding in another shedload of admin calculating precise priority order for all spare doses.

Better for 'spare' vaccines to be used on absolutely anyone than to go in the bin.

But I agree some kind of standby list would be a good idea, perhaps organised by age. Personally I would swim through treacle to get a vaccination. I wouldn't think of jumping the queue but if someone phoned me at an ungodly hour and offered me a vaccination that was about to be binned, you can bet I'd be there.

Two of my relatives (a married couple, early 70s, no underlying conditions) got a phone call on Sunday evening.... Could they drive there within 15 minutes... Were they prepared to wait by their phone and not leave the house, even for exercise, in case of a call for the next 4 days.. They said yes to both... Got called 5.50pm on the third day (Wednesday) and were both vaccinated by 6.10!
I don't know where the manpower comes from for this system, but it is brilliant and should ideally by what happens to spare vaccines, imo.

@TooManyDinosaurs1

My sister works for the nhs in an office based role, her office isn’t based anywhere near the hospital and she’s been working from home since March. She’s 27 and very fit and healthy. She got the vaccine about 4 weeks ago through work. My mum couldn’t believe it (though she’s obviously pleased she got it) my mum is a nurse looking after covid patients, she knows paramedics still waiting for their call up!! She can’t understand why nhs office staff who never see patients anyway and who are literally never leaving the house are being offered it before people who are dealing with covid positive patients on a daily basis, it’s madness.

I know someone else who is office based nhs staff, she’s 30 and again healthy, currently on mat leave and not due back until September and she got hers weeks ago too! She’s not even at work!!! She advertised it all over Facebook too, posting her appointment card and that she’d been done, I had to sit on my hands not to comment!

can’t compare with other hospitals but in ours spare vaccines were used for this and having to risk assess every staff member and job for risk isn’t very efficient. And the NHS does need its staff not to be ill whether they are working from home or not.

@atomt

I think it's great they make use of every dose they can get and it's of course better to give it to someone than bin it.

I can't help feeling disappointed it all comes down to who you know, though if they're really calling in family and friends. Maybe any other kind of a queue/wait list type system just wouldn't work though, who knows? If lots of people were allowed to sign up to be on such a list, when it comes to it would they really turn up.

I would turn up, my husband would turn up. If they told us we could go and wait in the care for an hour at the end of the session on the off chance there was spare vaccine we'd go. Sitting in the car in their car park would be a novelty after months in the house unable to go out.

I haven't seen anyone suggest vaccine goes in the bin just that it goes to people in priority groups. The people getting their friend/relative who is a GP to give them a dose aren't saving it from going in the bin they are taking it from a person who is entitled to it.

The Pzler vaccine is taken out of the freezer a couple hours before vaccinations begin, so a whole batch is taken out, if one of the people booked in does not turn up for the vaccine the vaccine can not be returned to the freezer so it’s then chucked away? Pretty sure that’s how it works. So no the vaccine isn’t being taken away from someone, it’s being saved from being put in the bin. Some people are missing their appointments so there’s often several vaccines left and I’m pretty sure some have had to be binned.

@Snog

SIL has been vaccinated already- she is a healthy 40 year old, works from home, no caring responsibilities.

It's made me feel surprisingly angry. I'm not clear how she managed it at this point. On a personal level I like SIL so am pleased for her but god I feel angry at the injustice.

I know some people have picked up "spare" doses but surely even the spare doses should be managed according to health priorities? Eg at least finding someone in groups 1-9 to vaccinate if not in groups 1-4.

AIBU to feel angry about this?

There isn't the capacity to sort out a system for allocating spare doses specifically according to priority.

Added to that is that CEV in general are far less likely to be able to suddenly appear at a last minute appointment as they may be dependent on others for travel etc

In the first vaccine clinic I did, we threw away 20 doses at the end of the clinic. We had less than half an hour till we had to be out of the centre so the next surgery could come in, and we couldn’t get anyone to come up in time.

The next time that happened, we offered it to the marshals in the car park instead .

@NoMoreMuchin

Two of my relatives (a married couple, early 70s, no underlying conditions) got a phone call on Sunday evening.... Could they drive there within 15 minutes... Were they prepared to wait by their phone and not leave the house, even for exercise, in case of a call for the next 4 days.. They said yes to both... Got called 5.50pm on the third day (Wednesday) and were both vaccinated by 6.10! I don't know where the manpower comes from for this system, but it is brilliant and should ideally by what happens to spare vaccines, imo.

That absolutely shows it can be done. Good for them and good for whoever organised it.

@atomt

I think it's great they make use of every dose they can get and it's of course better to give it to someone than bin it.

I can't help feeling disappointed it all comes down to who you know, though if they're really calling in family and friends. Maybe any other kind of a queue/wait list type system just wouldn't work though, who knows? If lots of people were allowed to sign up to be on such a list, when it comes to it would they really turn up.

In reality a list like the kind you’re talking about is a massive workload administratively and requires a lot of resources. Don’t forget that somewhere in amongst all of this that people have to be called back for a second jab at some point.

Most NHS IT systems and equipment that runs them would shock someone who’d never encountered them before but they’re clunky and restrictive. Implementing a brand new system quickly would most likely involve an excel spreadsheet and so many risk points for error that the extra manpower required to make it workable would have never ending requirements for more to rectify the inevitable mistakes.

The quickest, safest way is to keep it as simple as possible.

@Bagamoyo1

In the first vaccine clinic I did, we threw away 20 doses at the end of the clinic. We had less than half an hour till we had to be out of the centre so the next surgery could come in, and we couldn’t get anyone to come up in time. The next time that happened, we offered it to the marshals in the car park instead .

The marshalls are probably deserving it but why wait till the last half hour to work out you had doses left or did the 20 people who didn't turn up all having appointments in the last half hour?

If there was a list then almost everybody would want to be on it so it wouldn’t work.