To find the antisemitism tiring

[notevenat20]

I keep on hearing people near where I live complaining that Israel is not vaccinating the Palestinians. It just sounds antisemitic to me.

All Arab Israelis are being vaccinated. Palestinians living in East Jerusalem are also being vaccinated by the Israelis. Those who live in West Bank and Gaza don't live in Israel and are under a different health authority. Those authorities have not asked Israel for any help. There is a question about those who travel to work in Israel from the West Bank and everyone can argue about international politics. But why is this the main topic of conversation? I don't hear anyone talking about problems of vaccinations in other countries. It makes me sad.

The unspoken truth is that anti-semitism is the motivator behind the the whole Q-Anon conspiracy movement. It is also deeply embedded in a swathe of left-wing politics.

So yes, the fact that the autonomous Palestinian territories have point-blank refused Israeli help, and have also not been offered any help from their Arab neighbours will not get reported, and the Israel is 'not vaccinating Palestinians' meme will be repeated again and again.

A little background:

In situations of occupation, under Article 56 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, Occupying Powers have the obligation to ensure and maintain public health and hygiene in the occupied territory, with the cooperation of national and local authorities. They must take ‘preventive measures necessary to combat the spread of contagious diseases and epidemics’. Such measures comprise the distribution of medicines and vaccines, the establishment of stocks of medical supplies (including vaccines), or the dispatch of medical teams to administer vaccinations in areas where epidemics have broken out.

The International Court of Justice, the UN General Assembly and the United Nations Security Council regards Israel as the "Occupying Power". The Supreme Court of Israel has ruled that Israel holds the West Bank under "belligerent occupation". The High Court of Justice in Israel, with a variety of different justices sitting, has repeatedly stated for more than four decades that international law applies to Israel's presence in the West Bank. Officially Israel maintains that the West Bank is disputed territory.

My opinion:

Israel's obligation is to offer vaccines to the Palestinian Authorities. If the Palestinian Authorities choose not to accept then that is the end of it.

It is true that some people criticize Israel because they are basically anti - Semitic. But I think the issue of vaccination in the occupied territories is a legitimate one to raise - see jcyclops post above.

Short of rounding the Palestinian populace up and forcibly vaccinating them, what should Israel do?

@Haffiana just make clear the offer to supply the vaccine's there. Realistically that's all they can do, except maybe offer vaccination stations at the border for those who come to Israel to work.

@jcyclops

My opinion:

Israel's obligation is to offer vaccines to the Palestinian Authorities. If the Palestinian Authorities choose not to accept then that is the end of it.

I agree.

I'm not anti-Semitic either. My father is Jewish, it would make me a hypocrite. I am anti Israeli occupation. I'm also left wing and I resent that being on the left, or voting Labour under Corbyn makes me some kind of Jew hater. Being critical of Israel does not make someone anti-Semitic. This ridiculous notion was stoked up to discredit left wingers who have been campaigning for justice for the Palestinian people, just because its all too easy for people to be persuaded that being pro one thing must automatically make you anti its other.

I'm not anti-Semitic either. My father is Jewish, it would make me a hypocrite. I am anti Israeli occupation. I'm also left wing and I resent that being on the left, or voting Labour under Corbyn makes me some kind of Jew hater. Being critical of Israel does not make someone anti-Semitic. This ridiculous notion was stoked up to discredit left wingers who have been campaigning for justice for the Palestinian people, just because its all too easy for people to be persuaded that being pro one thing must automatically make you anti its other.

You veered a little off topic. The questions are :

a) What do you want Israel to do given that neither Hamas nor the Palestinian authority, who are responsible for healthcare in their regions, have asked for help with vaccinations.
b) Why is this a main topic when people talk about covid? I mean there are a lot of countries in the world and many of them have terrible governments.

I am worried that the percentage of "I am not a racist but" posters may become high in which case I will opt out.

@notevenat20

I am worried that the percentage of "I am not a racist but" posters may become high in which case I will opt out.

Ah you just wanted people to agree with you. Perhaps there could be a special section for that? Like AIBU but PIIR 'Post if I am right'

I disagree and it is a barrier to discussing political decisions made by or relating to Israel that some always assume anti-semitism.

But why is this the main topic of conversation? I don't hear anyone talking about problems of vaccinations in other countries.

My newsfeed has many articles talking of problems of vaccinations in many countries, including fraud to access, errors/delay, European countries at loggerheads regarding distribution.

Being Jewish I always find anti semitism exhausting.

I feel that this is a situation as with all situations in Israel / Palestine where whilst sitting in the UK - although I don't know where you are OP, that we are not going to get the true story.

I'm not a zionist despite being jewish and there is always a lot of claims either way that they did or didn't do this that or the other in either area.

I would hope to be honest that this conversation doesn't go much further, it's dangerous and pretty much always heavily either biased or just guessing.

Of all the issues in this current situation, whilst I'm jewish and truly hope that everyone is being vaccinated fairly in Israel and Palestine, I feel that our question in the uk should be more along the lines of why the fuck have our government failed so spectacularly at keeping out citizens safe.

I'd say the news coverage of the Israeli vaccination program Ive seen has been overwhelmingly positive. They are leading the world.

*My opinion:

Israel's obligation is to offer vaccines to the Palestinian Authorities. If the Palestinian Authorities choose not to accept then that is the end of it.*

^This in spades IMO.

notevenat20, it is not possible to discuss this without being accused of anti-Semitism.

In my view at least 90% of pro-Palestinian activists are really just Israel haters. You can tell because when Palestinians are treated badly by other countries, eg Lebanon refusing to vaccinate Palestinians at all, there is no outcry at all.

@cardswapping

I disagree and it is a barrier to discussing political decisions made by or relating to Israel that some always assume anti-semitism.

Not everyone thinks that way. Israel can be criticised like any another nation state, or society that claims nationhood. People do criticise Israel. The left seem incapable of be critical of the Palestinian authorities. Even when they are clearly in the wrong. The deflection to Israel as the wrong doer shows a prejudice. One the left is incapable of explaining.

The OP is right the leaders in the occupied territory have asked for autonomy but are using that autonomy to disadvantage their people for political reasons.

Not everyone thinks that way. Israel can be criticised like any another nation state, or society that claims nationhood. People do criticise Israel. The left seem incapable of be critical of the Palestinian authorities. Even when they are clearly in the wrong. The deflection to Israel as the wrong doer shows a prejudice. One the left is incapable of explaining.

Right. The problem isn't criticising the Israeli government, more than half the Israeli population dislikes it. It is a democracy after all. The problem is conversations like this (heavily pastiched but a reasonable summary of the thousands of conversations I have heard):

Me: Woohoo we have a vaccine in Britain and my aunt just got it.

You: Yes, Israel is an evil country and they torture Palestinians. They clearly want all Palestinians to die of covid.

Me: That isn't true and why are you talking about Israel anyway?

You: Oh my god! ["You jews" sotto voce.] I can't talk about Israel without being called antisemitic.

This is complex. I have to admit, I was immediately like, "Dammit Israel. Don't be assholes about it" initially. But reading about it, I'm torn, to be honest. But the voices of common sense and compassion say, C'mon Israel, just do the decent thing. Don't be assholes about it. You're not empowering Hamas by vaccinating ALL Palestinians or at least helping the Palestinians to roll-out sooner than March.

Don't be assholes about it. You're not empowering Hamas by vaccinating ALL Palestinians or at least helping the Palestinians to roll-out sooner than March.

Hamas is in charge in Gaza. They haven't asked for any help and they have written in their constitution the wish to destroy the state of Israel. What are you suggesting Israel does?

And I'm half Jewish, if that matters. This is a humanitarian crisis we're ALL swept up in. I daresay there are Israeli Jews who would happily see their Palestinian neighbours vaccinated, for the good of mankind. Not all will feel this way, but some most certainly will. Many, I imagine.

And I'm half Jewish, if that matters. This is a humanitarian crisis we're ALL swept up in. I daresay there are Israeli Jews who would happily see their Palestinian neighbours vaccinated, for the good of mankind. Not all will feel this way, but some most certainly will. Many, I imagine

Yes of course. But I feel the same way about the French and I still don't want us to give our vaccines to them.

@notevenat20

Not everyone thinks that way. Israel can be criticised like any another nation state, or society that claims nationhood. People do criticise Israel. The left seem incapable of be critical of the Palestinian authorities. Even when they are clearly in the wrong. The deflection to Israel as the wrong doer shows a prejudice. One the left is incapable of explaining.

Right. The problem isn't criticising the Israeli government, more than half the Israeli population dislikes it. It is a democracy after all. The problem is conversations like this (heavily pastiched but a reasonable summary of the thousands of conversations I have heard):

Me: Woohoo we have a vaccine in Britain and my aunt just got it.

You: Yes, Israel is an evil country and they torture Palestinians. They clearly want all Palestinians to die of covid.

Me: That isn't true and why are you talking about Israel anyway?

You: Oh my god! ["You jews" sotto voce.] I can't talk about Israel without being called antisemitic.

You've heard 'thousands' such conversations?

Really?

Could you link to any such 'conversations' on MN just so we have an idea what we're talking about rather than having to rely on your 'pastiche' (ie invention) of what 'thousands' of people have said to you?

Hamas is in charge in Gaza. They haven't asked for any help and they have written in their constitution the wish to destroy the state of Israel. What are you suggesting Israel does?

Mine was sort of a flippant comment. I apologise. I was using it as a sort of way of pointing out the political divide that gets in the way of effectively dealing with a crisis.
You know, I wish I knew the answer. Because a big part of me thinks, Israel is doing what most other countries would do. But being that this is a humanitarian crisis, Israel should help the Palestinians roll out faster (if that's even possible) or bring them ALL (all Palestinians) directly into Israel's own vaccination programme. Very complex and I am not an economist or a politician, as you can tell.
At present, the Palestinian health ministry says the rollout will happen in March. We'll wait and see and hope for the best.
My father was in a concentration camp as a Jew, so believe me, there isn't a hint of antisemitism in my views. Not at all.