Making pupils repeat a year

[PigggieABC]

Is this likely to happen?

What would happen to the pre-school and year 6 cohorts in this scenario?

Can you imagine having 12 year olds at primary school?

Wouldn't it be much better to move all year groups up as usual but lower the expectations in each year's set curriculum?

I hope they won't do this.

@longestlurkerever

Oh come on now, we are not going to base our state education policy on the wishes and needs of children in private school, surely??

But a lot of state schools have had really good provision, such as my son's 6th form college, albeit that they've not been able to cater for "in-person activities like music, drama and science experiments every easily or at all). My son has missed out on some of his A level teaching but on the whole they've stayed on top of everything the needed to do.

Of course the other side of the coin is the schools that simply gave up last year. Their heads do need to be accountable for the decisions they made.

My son would be devastated to have to repeat the year, he wants to get on with his life, although as a pp said, goodness know what uni will look like unless they get of their bottoms and vaccinate all 18-22 year olds and uni staff.

I do think there should be some flexibility for those who really do need to start again though. The very able will be fine, others struggle to keep up at the best of times.

As for not being ready for uni, I've said this before, but it depends on the subject. If you are eg studying Eng lit A level it doesn't matter if you didn't read all the books you were meant to even if you are doing an English degree. Ditto history, you might do ancient history A level but opt for a modern history degree. The issue is the level you've been working at rather than the content. However, I realise it's quite different for maths and science and I am not sure what the solution is other than for universities to add more foundation level classes for students to catch up. It must be possible - and of course in Scotland they have a foundation-type year anyway.

Yes, it would be pretty crap if the "catch up" was only offered to "disadvantaged" children whatever the definition. Most of them are in school now. Thats just not on, like punishment for not slacking off.

Actually the majority of disadvantaged children are not in school. I think it is a higher percentage than it was in the last lockdown but it certainly isn't most of them.

It is interesting as there are many threads about worrying about the vulnerable children and schools need to be open, and then when funding is directed more to the vulnerable children, people aren't quite so concerned about them and want some of that funding for their own children.

I have said this before on other threads: I think all students stay in their current year group for 1 more term and we shift the school year to 4 terms starting Jan-Dec. 4 shorter terms, no more 2 week half terms (ridiculous FFS!).
For children starting Reception, its a 3 month delay which is more manageable that a year delay and for universities the same (they only teach 9 months out of every 12) - a 3 month adjustment to the whole education system and would bring benefits to all.
That extra term this year in current year groups back in school would allow teachers to focus on core curriculum to get children back or nearer where they are meant to be.

@zoemum2006

I think my children would go absolutely ballistic if all their hard work over two lockdowns resulted in them having to be bored off their skulls and sit through the whole thing again because some people couldn't be bothered to stop playing x-box or get out of bed.

That's a very unfair post. Parents are being asked to do the impossible educate, work, child care at the same time.

I'm meant to be working now, 4yo is on my knee, 9yo is be egged on with school work. When left alone they just start fighting and no school work gets done.
Good job my boss is under standing but I can't do this forever.

I guess it is because I am looking at this from the early years perspective.
Depends on definition of "disadvantaged by lockdown", imo all reception and y1 and y7 at home are disadvanaged compared to the ones in school.

I and a far few others actually think it’s probably for the best and hope it does happen

There are so many reasons why this won't or can't happen.

It would bankrupt universities for a start to not have a new intake in September.

@zoemum2006 thats a horrible thing to say. My DD isn't behind and doesnt need to skip a year, but if the majority needed to then I know she could spend the year deepening and consolidating her knowledge while others catch up with the basics - she would make it work for her not "go ballistic" as shes been brought up to care about others.

My DSD is one of the kids who's spent a year playing her xbox and is now miles behind. Shes been offered a school place as vulnerable all along but its too much effort for Mum to get her there when she could get away with keeping her home, so she plays fortnite all day while mum drinks. Weve tried to help many times and been given short shrift. Is all of that a 10yo girls fault? Does she deserve to struggle now forever and have her life chances limited? Or as a society should we all want to help her grow up to become a functional member of society, rather than a carbon copy of her mother who will be on benefits all her life and neglect her kids? Yes, she's lazy and doesnt care and cant be bothered, but shes a little girl and its not her fault!

Honestly, having all kids repeat a year (or even a term) is a ridiculous idea and is not going happen.

If you feel you want your child to repeat a year then take it up with your school.

@zoemum2006

I think my children would go absolutely ballistic if all their hard work over two lockdowns resulted in them having to be bored off their skulls and sit through the whole thing again because some people couldn't be bothered to stop playing x-box or get out of bed.

ok that's one way of looking at this.

I don't think those who fall behind have just spent time on the xbox but are e.g. children whose families don't engage with education anyway, even during normal times, children with SN, or who are unable to motivate themselves to work without the routines and structure of school or where both parents work from home in demanding jobs and are not. Surely these children can be supported when they go back after Easter and in the next school year.

I agree though that it would be incredibly demoralising for all the kids who are working hard doing all the work set by schools under very challenging conditions. It would be the surest way to demoralise a generation of young learners and send the completely wrong message that there is no point in persevering and working hard.

It would also be a slap in the face of all the working parents who are struggling so much to coordinate home schooling and are making sacrifice including being furloughed or giving up on their careers to support remote learning.

The biggest concern with repeating a year is what happens when we all have to lock down again next winter, and the winter after? It's just not a smart or sustainable approach to fixing this problem.

I think my children would go absolutely ballistic if all their hard work over two lockdowns resulted in them having to be bored off their skulls and sit through the whole thing again because some people couldn't be bothered to stop playing x-box or get out of bed

That's a very unfair post. Parents are being asked to do the impossible educate, work, child care at the same time

I imagine zoemums kids are older secondary aged children. Its the usual mumsnet 'I'm alright jack' post with no thought, care or empathy for anyone else's situation

@chilver that is a good idea and definetely feasible. As I said before the only issue is cutting school staff's holiday short, which they would need to be rewarded for and I would extend Feb half term too. I am sure some would not be very happy and but since we all collectivelly sacrificing so much, it would really look bad to moan about it.

The biggest concern with repeating a year is what happens when we all have to lock down again next winter, and the winter after? It's just not a smart or sustainable approach to fixing this problem
Thats not likely to happen though when we have a vaccine is it?

"The biggest concern with repeating a year is what happens when we all have to lock down again next winter, and the winter after? It's just not a smart or sustainable approach to fixing this problem."

1. This is highly unlikely to happen - nhs won't be overwhelmed as people will have been vaccinated.

1. If it does happen then actually "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it" is a valid strategy imo.

@zoemum2006

I think my children would go absolutely ballistic if all their hard work over two lockdowns resulted in them having to be bored off their skulls and sit through the whole thing again because some people couldn't be bothered to stop playing x-box or get out of bed.

Clueless, utterly clueless

Is all of that a 10yo girls fault? Does she deserve to struggle now forever and have her life chances limited? Or as a society should we all want to help her grow up to become a functional member of society, rather than a carbon copy of her mother who will be on benefits all her life and neglect her kids?

That's really terrible for the girl. She will need extra support when she goes back to school and I hope she will get it. If all fails, she will have to repeat a year. That is no reason for millions of pupils who have kept up with the work set by schools to repeat a year. It doesn't make sense.

"It would also be a slap in the face of all the working parents who are struggling so much to coordinate home schooling and are making sacrifice including being furloughed or giving up on their careers to support remote learning."

I just really don't see it this way at all. We are all struggling and sacrificing so much to support remote learning but saying "actually here's a whole extra year of state funded education and childhood where you don't need to worry about exams and jobs" would be a massive gift and not a slap in the face or a punishment. My children are primary age, perhaps I'd see it differently if they were older but I just see what they have lost at the moment, and it's a lot less than what many others will have lost.

I think this is something that you will agree or disagree with based on the age and ability of your child.

I have a 5yr old in year 1 who absolutely would benefit from repeating the year and from speaking to other mums in his class they all agree that despite excellent remote provision by the school it just isnt working for most children.

I also have a just about to turn 4yr old who is desperate to start big school and is very ready, she would be bored by another year of preschool.

My own opinion and what would work for my children is to repeat the year but invest in having an early years teacher go into preschools to start reception learning amongst the children due to start school in September.

@PigggieABC no I don't think its necessary for everyone to repeat a year. I think there would be lots of benefits but also lots of drawbacks and that in reality its probably unworkable. I was objecting to being told it was wrong for kids to repeat a year purely because those who had been able to keep up would "go ballistic"

Surely the answer is not to 'repeat the year' but for there to be more flexibility in the curriculum to enable teachers to teach what they need to teach even if it would previously have been taught the year before.

The challenge would be for those students in year 10 and above and there should be additional support for those (especially those who have struggled to work from home). It is those students who should be offered the additional tuition.

I am in another European country. We have always had the system here of individual pupils repeating years if they haven't reached the standard expected for that school year. Some children (many more than normal) are already repeating the last school year (ie. from 2019-2020).
Normally all children will sit tests during the school year to assess whether they can move on or not. When the pandemic hit in March all school tests were cancelled so there was nothing to assess the children on. This meant that schools were not able to enforce resitting of the year (it is compulsory to resit if they do not pass the tests). A voluntary system was introduced where teachers assessed how children had progressed during the home-learning and half a week at school phase. Those struggling were encouraged to resit the year which many have done and extra classes were also offered in the summer holidays.

Some sort of system of assessment might work for the UK. Who has not managed to cover the material during home-schooling? Who has fallen really behind? Which children have additional needs which have not been met? etcetc.
These children could then resit the year while the others who have achieved the learning goals could move on.
It would be very complex and there is no easy answer but there needs to be some solution put in place for this.

"I have a 5yr old in year 1 who absolutely would benefit from repeating the year and from speaking to other mums in his class they all agree that despite excellent remote provision by the school it just isnt working for most children."

Yes, my dd2 is this age. It's rubbish for them I think. Actually I think workwise she is fine but she missed half of reception and now half of year 1 and I just feel like she needs a bit of time just to settle and grow into school without being forced to move on. Dd1 is year 5 and I feel a bit similarly about her - she would really benefit from a year of normal to reset before she is forced to move onwards towards secondary age - emotionally as much as anyone else.

It's not even like it's been a normal year out where they' might've had some kind of fulfilling experience to draw strength from - it's just been lonely and limiting and a bit frightening.

"Blended learning that is well planned could actually really improve schooling for all"

It won't work for some. Some are in school now because they cannot learn at home.

Some sort of system of assessment might work for the UK. Who has not managed to cover the material during home-schooling? Who has fallen really behind? Which children have additional needs which have not been met? etcetc. These children could then resit the year while the others who have achieved the learning goals could move on.

I agree that assessing the children to identify those who would benefit from repeating the year might be the better way forward. Let the children who have worked hard during both lockdowns move on as planned. However, I don't think that the parents who say that they would like the year repeated would be happy about this selective approach .

@Underhisi

"Blended learning that is well planned could actually really improve schooling for all"

It won't work for some. Some are in school now because they cannot learn at home.

That's why it's blended, it means on- and offline. Those who can't do online learning during potential future lockdowns will continue having a place in school and use computers in the classroom, just like now.

It would be shortsighted to assume there won't be any further lockdowns, although I hope there won't be.