Making pupils repeat a year

[PigggieABC]

Is this likely to happen?

What would happen to the pre-school and year 6 cohorts in this scenario?

Can you imagine having 12 year olds at primary school?

Wouldn't it be much better to move all year groups up as usual but lower the expectations in each year's set curriculum?

I hope they won't do this.

It used to be the same here where children moved to high school a year later. Our borough was one of the last to change over but not sure of the year.

I like the idea of holding everyone back a year but I can see the problems this could cause.

Imagine having a brave leader who announced we're taking a year out? All parents get paid a universal income. All stress and pressure of homelearning taken away. Focussing on life skills, fitness, well being. Good childcare provision set up for key workers and vulnerable. It was never going to happen but you have to wonder what better ways there are.

Quite a few children struggled with the YR to Y1 transition in September as they hadn’t had the time in YR and struggled with the step up from play based learning. Similar issues from Y1 to Y2. This will be even more noticeable after this period of lockdown. Some changes may need to be made to the curriculum/provision to help these children, and it isn’t all about the academic side, it will also involve social issues too, working in groups again, communication etc.

Children in exam year groups maybe going up to the next level with the grades but not necessarily the requisite knowledge.

Not sure what all the answers are

It will never happen-universities would go bust and it wouldn’t help parents of toddlers with an extra year of them at home

For every parent wanting the year repeated, another parent is strongly against it.

I think it's an idea that has superficial appeal, but it wouldn't really work in reality.

I just googled and it was only in 2010 that Harrow changed the transfer age to secondary school.

For summer borns just turning 4 or 12 leaving nursery and primary I can see why those parents would maybe want it but what about those with winter borns, as it is my dd with be nearly 5 when she starts school this year, so we’d have to wait until she is nearly 6, then in primary you’d have nearly 13 year olds, that just would not work, my middle is nearly 13 and in year 8, but if you kept them back at the same age my dd when it came to it would be two academic years behind in year 6, so that’s one reason it wouldn’t work, universities would go under without a years cohort and I’m sure there are so many other reasons it would not work.

I don't think it will happen, not least because there's a very "can't do" attitude in this country about anything that doesn't replicate the status quo, but as a parent I'd like it to happen. My children are fine and doing pretty well but of course they have lost out from a disrupted year. Even socially and maturity wise I feel dd1 is no more ready for secondary school next year than she was a year ago, perhaps less so, and there'll be emotional wobbles to come I am sure, and it feels like dd2 is heading into year 2 soon having barely settled in. I really don't get the attitude of "how unfair, making them repeat a year" it feels far fairer than making them lose a year of education, and "can you imagine a 12 year old in primary school?" Why on earth not?

@Ginfordinner

What will happen to higher education? They can't dumb down degrees. Will all students have to do a foundation year?

Degrees can’t be dumbed down or they will become worthless. Students who don’t have the required knowledge will have to take extra courses alongside their degrees to catch up if they can’t do it themselves. There will be plenty of students who will have the required knowledge though so won’t be a problem for everyone. Same for jobs for school leavers. I work for a large company that employs a huge number of apprentices each year. Our apprentice assessment centres are still running with the same tasks and tests, as a certain level of knowledge is required for the job. If someone doesn’t have that knowledge they don’t get the job. We are most certainly not going to teach it to them ourselves!

I wish it would happen.
But I doubt there's the money for it. They'd need portcabins and teaching staff for the new intake.

Imagine having a brave leader who announced we're taking a year out?

But Covid is here to stay, who is to say we won't have further lock downs mixed with bursting bubbles having to self isolate in the next few years? How many years can you hold year groups back? It doesn't make sense.

Blended learning is the way forward. Making sure that online provision is of high enough quality and factoring in that students might have to learn online parts of the school year whether due to bubble bursting or hard lockdowns, or even snow days.

Such a policy would make education more resilient to disruptions in the future. Online learning does not have to be second rate if done well. It also doesn't have to mean days spent in front of screens watching boring videos. Blended learning that is well planned could actually really improve schooling for all, it would cover more learning styles and independent learning. It might also open the door for new roles in education, so many possibilities.

Other countries are more flexible in putting children back a year/moving them on a year. We are so rigid and I've never understood why. For some children an extra year of schooling could have made such a difference. I know it is slowly changing now for Summer borns.

No buildings, no teachers. It won’t happen.

It won’t happen. What about all those kids who are in private education and have had a fairly decent ongoing provision? They’re not going to want to repeat all that.

bumbleymummy
"It’s a terrible idea and I’m surprised so many people on social media seem to support it.

Because people don’t think about the logistics and work behind an idea like this, they only think of the face value of it and children exactly like their own"

What a horrible comment. Plus it makes no sense. This kind of thing would benefit those children who are most disadvantaged, which isn't my kids, but I still see the benefits of it.

I'm a civil servant and it's my job to think through ideas like this and make them happen or shoot them down in flames. I really don't see how this one is a non-starter. If you can make Nightingale hospitals and Nightingale courts then I think you can find extra nursery places for those due to start reception (assuming all parents of 4yos want them to be in nursery). I just don't think it will happen because for something difficult you need a lot of political will and popular support and I don't think it is there, sadly.

@Foghead

It won’t happen. What about all those kids who are in private education and have had a fairly decent ongoing provision? They’re not going to want to repeat all that.

True, and all those that did their entrance exams for selective schools, what would happen to them?

Oh come on now, we are not going to base our state education policy on the wishes and needs of children in private school, surely??

No I don't want this to happen and I don't think it will. Kids will move on as normal but there should be curriculum adjustments and catch up plans in place. I have no doubt that this is already being planned (hopefully by teachers and not politicians) just as the vaccine roll out was being planned back in summer last year by the NHS.

Most kids are adaptable and resilient and plans should be in place to support those that aren't. I have a friend who is extremely worried about her kids education and thinks they are so far behind. I have reassured her that they are bright capable kids and are no further behind than any other child. We are all in the same boat.

From a personal perspective my DC would be horrified if they had to repeat a year of secondary.

We may not want to put our faith in politicians who have a habit of making a mess of thinks but I do have faith in the teaching profession who will work their hardest to sort this out when the time is right and get our kids where they need to be. It may look unconventional for a few years and not what we are used to but kids don't stop growing up and to hold them back to repeat a year would be a very bad idea.

@PigggieABC

Imagine having a brave leader who announced we're taking a year out?

But Covid is here to stay, who is to say we won't have further lock downs mixed with bursting bubbles having to self isolate in the next few years? How many years can you hold year groups back? It doesn't make sense.

Blended learning is the way forward. Making sure that online provision is of high enough quality and factoring in that students might have to learn online parts of the school year whether due to bubble bursting or hard lockdowns, or even snow days.

Such a policy would make education more resilient to disruptions in the future. Online learning does not have to be second rate if done well. It also doesn't have to mean days spent in front of screens watching boring videos. Blended learning that is well planned could actually really improve schooling for all, it would cover more learning styles and independent learning. It might also open the door for new roles in education, so many possibilities.

But blended learning for the youngest kids is not really very good education is it? Its ok for emergencies, but long term, it just means the youngest kids dont learn as much as they would if they were in school; and not to mention the most vulnerable kids, who dont have access to technology/have parents who dont care/have parents who have to work themselves and cant dedicate time and effort to helping.

High quality blended learning is ok when we are talking about NT kids aged 8+ with tech resources, money and parental support. For everyone outside that... i'm not convinced...

It is the fear of something different as well. I remember with the first lockdown hearing so many people say things along the lines of 'We can only do this for 3/4/6 weeks before the country collapses' and 'We cannot close schools ever again or else we're screwed'. Yet here we are and the world is still turning. I don't even know what I'm trying to say.

I agree @PigggieABC re your comment about covid being here to stay and the uncertainty of future lockdowns and isolations.

It can't happen. It would need a complete overall of educational infrastructure. There's no room

I don’t see how they can, my daughter is year 8 and gets full live taught lessons, I can’t see why she would need to redo this next year? My son is year 6, he gets no live teaching but lots of resources from school so I am teaching him and he is understanding it and taking it in so again i don’t see why he would need to redo it all next year, he’s ready for secondary. I know that’s not everyone’s situation but I wouldn’t be happy in our situation and I think it would be a waste of a year for my two. I might be wrong but my understanding is secondary schools are all delivering live teaching as per the timetable in this lockdown? And a lot of primaries as well.

But blended learning for the youngest kids is not really very good education is it? Its ok for emergencies, but long term, it just means the youngest kids dont learn as much as they would if they were in school;

But we are in an emergency (some would say disaster) and will remain in an unstable situation for years to come. Despite vaccinations further lockdowns in coming winters are not unlikely.

It's much more unlikely to think schools and society will be back to normal by September. The vaccine will help hopefully) but we should expect further periods of disruption to manage covid, maybe for the next 2-3 years.

@longestlurkerever

Oh come on now, we are not going to base our state education policy on the wishes and needs of children in private school, surely??

It's not a race to get out into the world of work though is it? "Waste of a year" seems an odd way of putting it. Like school is some form of prison sentence

Agree with nursery years being extended. The early years are way too demanding for many children. Long hours when they're 4 and their brains are barely capable of processing abstract concepts like letters and numbers.

I'm bloody hoping it'll happen.