What is the plan for keeping children safe?

[Indecisive12]

I know there are plenty of posts about schools etc but what are the plans for keeping children safe? I’m seeing more and more social media posts about children with long Covid and this is my biggest fear as a Mum with long Covid. I’ve not been watching the news or press statements but catch up on BBC website and haven’t seen a thing. Will they ever be vaccinated? Could it be added to the flu vaccine like H1N1?

Please be kind as before I had Covid I’d have thought I was ridiculous too but I honestly can’t risk them being like me.

I'm sorry you're worried but there aren't any plans and there probably won't ever be. Children aren't at a significant risk so they will all go back as normal, hopefully when the case rates are lower and hospital
admissions are manageable. Long covid is a concern for a lot of people but I don't think it's a major concern of the government's. It's extremely unlikely your children will be affected though. I hope you recover soon. People are getting over long covid, I think it just takes time.

I don't think there are any plans, the government is simply hoping to pretend it isn't happening once they've vaccinated adults.

I'm sorry you have long covid

I think there will be a plan and there is a plan but it probably suits not to start talking about it yet. People are ready to think about vaccinating their kids before they’ve had the vaccine themselves.

I think there must be a plan though - we can’t afford for children to bounce around covid and incur inevitable mutations and vaccine escape.

I think we will have to move towards a zero covid approach but we will probably edge a lot nearer to it before it’s admitted as we are such a long way off atm.

I wonder if they’ll be vaccinated eventually? They vaccinate children for flu. Makes sense that eventually they’ll he a yearly rona vaccine too.

This talks about vaccine trials in children.

www.aappublications.org/news/2021/01/27/acip-covid-vaccine-pediatric-trials-012721

In Australia it's noted on our vaccine schedule that vaccinating children may be an additional step based on the evolving situation and any new data.

It's unlikely to be added to the flu shot (H1N1 is type of flu, that emerged off-season, so started off with a shot all of its own, then that was incorporated into the annual shot, just as it would have been if it had emerged on more typical timing)

But it might end up as an annual coronavirus shot against all SARS family expected in circulation.

At the moment there is no plan for children because none of the jabs have been trialled for paediatric use. CEV and CV children age 16 and over can have the jab, and CEV children of any age can be considered for the jab on an individual (off licence) prescription by their hospital consultant.

Pfizer is now testing in the 12+ age group. And it's likely that more paediatric testing will take place idc.

It might become available at some stage, but right now it's not going to be used in DC unless there is an exceptional medical reason. And as posters rightly point out, DC, especially the u11s, are at very little risk of the severe disease and so not in need of a vaccine whose primary action is to prevent severe disease,

If/when we know about the vaccine's role in preventing transmission, there might be further changes to use. Right now we don't know enough.

For anyone who doesn't want to click the link:
"The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine has been authorized for people as young as age 16 and is the only one authorized for any youths. Pfizer recently announced that its trial in adolescents ages 12-15 is fully enrolled and it could seek authorization in the first half of this year, according to Dr. Erbelding.
Moderna’s vaccine has been authorized down to age 18, and it is enrolling adolescents ages 12-17 in trials. Janssen is expected to seek emergency use authorization of its vaccine for adults in the next several weeks and could start trials in adolescents about four to six weeks later, Dr. Erbelding said. AstraZeneca’s Phase 3 trial in U.S. adults is ongoing, and it could start trials in adolescents early this year.
Over the next several months, all four companies are expected to work on planning for trials in younger children, which may involve testing vaccines at lower doses than for adults."

As a teacher and parent this is something that concerns me too, especially with the new strain and its impact on younger age groups.

Viruses mutate so they can continue to infect. I am therefore genuinely worried that if we continue to vaccinate adults and do nothing to improve safety for kids whilst cramming them into overcrowded classrooms that we might see further mutations impacting younger age groups. I really wish the government had allowed rotas or had repurposed other buildings so that class sizes could be reduced. I wish they had invested in air filtration systems and followed World Health Organisation advice for masks in classrooms. Unfortunately their approach seems to be more about burying their head in the sand and saying schools are safe when those working in schools like myself who have experienced multiple cases know that isn’t the case.

So far my response has just been to control the things I can control so I teach in a mask (against government policy) and when I’m in class, I encourage the kids to layer up so we can have doors and windows open etc. Similarly I have pushed for my own primary age kids to wear masks and they wear three layer masks in school. I’m not sure what else we can do.

You have my sympathies about suffering with long covid. Fortunately it seems that more extreme types of reaction in kids requiring hospitalisation are still quite rare (a few thousand cases in the UK which statistically is still very small). Let’s hope it stays that way.

Exactly, GingerandTilly - it's why we need safer schools, nit just schools open at all cost.

You need low levels of cases in the community

I'm guessing this may be part of the reason why Oz and NZ are keeping the 2-week quarantine thing until 2022 (meaning there will be very little inbound travel until then)--they are calculating that that is enough time to get the kids vaccinated as well?

Other than sitting children in individual booths in face masks, how can you stop them spreading anything. Schools havent managed to stop D&V, threadworm and head lice going round them for years so unless they are totally separated with no contact with each other at all, how can they manage covid. (This isn't a dig, just how it is)

Spread has been far less in countries that have focused on masks and ventilation. Once community spread is far lower due to adults being vaccinated, outbreaks among kids should be rare enough that test-and-trace is enough to (mostly) manage it. I think.

It will be more of an issue if loads of adults refuse to get vaccinated, because them plus the kids will be enough to keep the virus swirling around and there will be too many clusters to try to handle.

I really hope they can push forward fast with the vaccine. Kids have had enough disruptions.

Eventually they’ll probably be vaccinated but it won’t be for a long time. They are given the flu vaccine now but not until relatively recently, a long, long time after it was available for adults. You’ll have to decide to let them get on with it, or keep them isolated for years. The country isn’t going to be locked down until children get the vaccine.

@user1477391263

I'm guessing this may be part of the reason why Oz and NZ are keeping the 2-week quarantine thing until 2022 (meaning there will be very little inbound travel until then)--they are calculating that that is enough time to get the kids vaccinated as well?

They won’t have vaccinated children in oz by 2022. They haven’t even approved a vaccine yet let alone started roll out, and a large proportion of their order is AZ which hasn’t been tested on children yet.

It's hard OP. If it turns out there is a genetic link between catching a virus and not recovering (which is being studied), your DC are potentially at a higher risk of developing Long Covid as you have. But this risk exists with all viruses and many children have ongoing long term symptoms after viruses such as glandular fever, and there's very little we can do to prevent that.

If you want your DC to be able to go into school and/or socialise with friends, you will have to go for a risk mitigation strategy, rather than risk elimination. Even just reducing on-site attendance to every other week brings the risk of exposure down by 50%. Limiting exposure to friends to school only and not seeing them outside of school reduces it further.

Otherwise, just know that if they catch it and/or show signs of struggling after a possibly asymptomatic bout of Covid, that early rest improves prognosis considerably and that DC have a generally much higher recovery rate of long term illness following a virus.

Yes they will be vaccinated eventually at least secondary age. They are doing trials of several vaccines on 12-17yr olds currently. Moderne is one and I think AZ the other.

There is also talk of a nasal vaccine being tried for adults, if this works I imagine this will be added to the kids flu vaccine in the future.

@Mousehole10 they approved the Pfizer one on 25 January and schedule is due to start mid feb.

@scaevola
CEV and CV children age 16 and over can have the jab, and CEV children of any age can be considered for the jab on an individual (off licence) prescription by their hospital consultant.
Do you know where that is from? I know the vaccine is being given to medically vulnerable over 16s in residential care, on a case by case basis. I haven't heard anything about younger medically vulnerable children being given the vaccine - and we haven't heard this from ds's Drs.

Israel are considering vaccinating medically vulnerable children, and are waiting for their chief medical officer to approve.
In what appears to be a world first, the Health Ministry on Tuesday issued a directive in favor of vaccinating children under the age of 16 who are at high risk of developing serious symptoms if they contract COVID-19.
article here

I just wish there was a clear message, even if it is only for medically vulnerable children for now.

JVT said about the off licence thing yesterday - this has always been the case with medicines so would be no different for the Covid jab. It will be interesting to see how many doctors are willing to discuss and authorise this on the their under 16 patients.

[quote spottygymbag]@Mousehole10 they approved the Pfizer one on 25 January and schedule is due to start mid feb. [/quote]
Sorry do you mean the vaccine has been approved for 12-16 year olds?...where does it say that?

...sorry ignore me. You're talking about vaccine approval on Australia.
Fuzzy headed after no sleep.

I'll have to watch, I missed him saying that. It hasn't been talked about as an option with ds, when we have asked, his paed and gp have said hopefully they will start trials in younger children soon.