‘Healthy’ but overweight?

[bumbleymummy]

Ok, I know this is a sensitive subject and I’m really not trying to upset or offend anyone. I just think it’s misleading when people say things like ‘ICU is filled with healthy under 60s’ or talk about a ‘healthy 40- something’ passing away and it turns out that person/a high proportion of those patients are very overweight. Are people who are clearly overweight actually ‘healthy’? I know it’s not the same as an underlying condition like diabetes or heart disease but we know that a high bmi puts people at greater risk of complications from coronavirus.

Before someone jumps on me, I’m not saying that someone’s life is of less value because they are overweight or have an underlying health condition. I’m just wondering if it’s accurate to say that they are ‘healthy’ when we are reporting figures and talking about risk.

my friend Sue is clinically obese but can run, has perfect blood pressure and cholesterol etc

I don't think that's what most posters have said at all. I think most people are saying that you can be overweight and run, have perfect blood pressure etc etc. I am slightly overweight according to BMI. I am not fat, I am very healthy, run, eat well. I don't think you can be healthy and obese particularly but what I'm saying is that there are some limitations to BMI with regards to build, muscle etc.

Those who are saying “my friend Sue is clinically obese but can run, has perfect blood pressure and cholesterol etc” are intimating that you can be obese and completely healthy but obesity is a health condition.

Yes plus 'Sue' is living in the hear and now and like many others, may well end up getting a lifelong health problem that even losing weight won't be able to shift.

@TheOtherMaryBerry

my friend Sue is clinically obese but can run, has perfect blood pressure and cholesterol etc

I don't think that's what most posters have said at all. I think most people are saying that you can be overweight and run, have perfect blood pressure etc etc. I am slightly overweight according to BMI. I am not fat, I am very healthy, run, eat well. I don't think you can be healthy and obese particularly but what I'm saying is that there are some limitations to BMI with regards to build, muscle etc.

I thought it was quite clear that the data shows its people who are very overweight or obese that are at risk, not someone who’s eaten too much over Christmas and tipped slightly until the overweight range.

A woman of 5ft 4 would be considered clinically obese at 12st 8lbs. It doesn’t sound like much but maybe I’ve lost perspective.

Surely it's the most obvious incentive to lose weight! I'm overweight and if losing it decreases my chances of dying from covid then bring on the Slimfast (it however one chooses to lose weight)!

I thought it was quite clear that the data shows its people who are very overweight or obese that are at risk, not someone who’s eaten too much over Christmas and tipped slightly until the overweight range.

Oh yes, that is what it shows. My frustration is with the posters who insist that it is impossible to be healthy and overweight, as if we don't all have varying frames, muscles etc.

Well, I have to say, this thread has already motivated one person. The sun is shining and I'm off for a 3 mile walk!

I know I'm going to be slammed , but I watched Panorama last night on the covid deaths heartbreaking sad each and ever one .. now I'm no slim chick but the one think they all had in common was their were all overweight

If you are overweight it is almost always down to you and your personal choices.

Leaving aside specific medical issues, I think its more complicated than that. Most people have more problems than simple boredom. Food is just one of many addictive things that people use to escape and high fat, high sugar food is cheap and readily available.

Is BMI an accurate measure of whether you are carrying to much fat? it isn't, or my understanding is it is measure of weight overall. I had a read about Leptin from Vanguards link. Leptin plays apart in COPD and Pneumonia. People carrying too much fat have a problem with leptin, and leptin belongs to the family of cytokines. It leads to inflammation. I remember quite early in the pandemic that it was reported that younger patients in UCI were dying because of cytokine storm. But, are leptins higher in people carrying too much body fat, or in all individuals with a higher BMI and higher muscle mass? I suspect that its where there is more fat carried. So I accept that BMI might not be the most accurate way of assessing risk in relation to weight. But we don't seem to measure obesity on any other scale.

I think they are probably using healthy in the sense of no immediate illness that impacts their life to a significant extent, or even more broadly, to mean that if they hadn't contracted covid there was no reason to suppose they were at risk of dying.
A lot of obese people would fall into this catagory as it can be many years before obesity causes noticeable illness.

While it is true that obesity can cause extra complications with covid I do think some people are using it as a gleeful outlet of their disgust for fat people.

A local middle aged mother died recently, she had five children.

Some of the fucking hideous comments under stories about her (which her older dc have probably seen) are calling her names and saying that if she hadn’t been fat she’d have been here for her dc so must not have loved them more than cake (paraphrasing a few comments together but you get the idea).

But we don't seem to measure obesity on any other scale.

Probably because BMI is simple, and realistically most people don't have sufficiently high muscle mass to make it irrelevant.

Yes, I have read before that a BMI of 27 is the 'lowest risk'.

I think this whole Covid thing has also brought into sharp relief how unhealthy we are as a society. I don't know what the answer is though.

Probably because BMI is simple, and realistically most people don't have sufficiently high muscle mass to make it irrelevant.

Not so sure it's so few. I know that there is a concern amongst many black people that BMI isn't accurate due to muscle density. We aren't all built the same!

It’s broadly right though. Know lots of people like to explain why it doesn’t apply to them!

currently overweight, but thankfully quite a BMI distance from obese.

On the whole I want to applaud participants on this thread for seperating the medical facts of excess weight from judgement.

Obesity is a medical term, and I'm saying this dispassionately, does factually increase risks of Covid, heart disease, joint problems and certain cancers.

Is the term obese a value judgement? It shouldnt be.

Are the reasons for obesity complex and varied. Absolutely.

@bumbleymummy

Ok, I know this is a sensitive subject and I’m really not trying to upset or offend anyone. I just think it’s misleading when people say things like ‘ICU is filled with healthy under 60s’ or talk about a ‘healthy 40- something’ passing away and it turns out that person/a high proportion of those patients are very overweight. Are people who are clearly overweight actually ‘healthy’? I know it’s not the same as an underlying condition like diabetes or heart disease but we know that a high bmi puts people at greater risk of complications from coronavirus.

Before someone jumps on me, I’m not saying that someone’s life is of less value because they are overweight or have an underlying health condition. I’m just wondering if it’s accurate to say that they are ‘healthy’ when we are reporting figures and talking about risk.

I think ‘healthy’ in this context means people who had other diagnosed or undiagnosed conditions that would otherwise have let them live normal lives. Plus there are conditions, like pcos and thyroid antibodies and varicose veins, that result in raised inflammation that the nhs doesn’t care to test.

To give you an example - when my neice was hospitalized a lot of the younger people who had also been hospitalized had allergies like hay fever and mild asthma already and none were visibly overweight.

@Jetatyeovilaerodrome

Yes, I have read before that a BMI of 27 is the 'lowest risk'.

Only for black women.

@MegtheShark

While it is true that obesity can cause extra complications with covid I do think some people are using it as a gleeful outlet of their disgust for fat people.

A local middle aged mother died recently, she had five children.

Some of the fucking hideous comments under stories about her (which her older dc have probably seen) are calling her names and saying that if she hadn’t been fat she’d have been here for her dc so must not have loved them more than cake (paraphrasing a few comments together but you get the idea).

How disgusting 😨

@Hazelnutlatteplease

If you have a BMI of 35 to 40, this can increase a person's chance of dying from Covid by 40%.

This isnt overweight. This is obese

It’s not even obese but morbidly obese and it’s the MO who are more at risk of dying.

Know lots of people like to explain why it doesn’t apply to them!

I think that's understandable! It's frustrating to be labelled as something you're not and have assumptions made!

Over 40 BMI is morbidly obese
30-40 is obese

I agree. Whenever I read an article about somebody ‘healthy’ who’s died of covid-19, particularly when under 60, I know before looking at the photo that they will be obese.

We need to stop getting offended about weight and the impact it has on health. I’m overweight, bordering on obese but losing weight slowly at the minute. I know I’m fat. We know that weight is a huge factor in why people get ill and die from covid. But apart from Boris saying a few months ago ‘I was too fat’, there have been barely any campaigns or incentives to lose weight. Instead, they closed gyms and shamed people for going to the park or countryside for a walk 🤷🏻‍♀️

[quote MiddleAgedLurker]The Life Scientific on R4 a few days ago covered this issue, interviewing a scientist called Giles Yeo who has spent his life researching genetics and obesity. The blurb from the programme is as follows:

Many of us think we’re in control of what we eat and that, coupled with what we do, dictates our shape and size. It’s physics after all - if you eat too much and move too little, you put on weight; do the opposite, and you lose it. Genes, the theory goes, have minimal if any effect on our size.

But what if we’re wrong? What if our genes have a powerful influence over how we put on weight, and why many struggle to lose it?

Over the past two decades, this once controversial idea has gained acceptance and has inspired the work of Giles Yeo. His research on the genetics of obesity at Cambridge University reveals the powerful ways in which our genes, which function within our brains, influence our eating behaviour.

These genes are far better suited to times of food scarcity. Fast forward to the modern diet, packed with sugar and fat, and our genetic makeup quickly becomes a recipe for disaster.

It's a good listen. The conclusion is that asking people to take individual responsibility for their weight is only part of the solution - we need to put policies in place to change things at a deeper level.

Link here in case you want to listen:
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000rmp5[/quote]
thank you!