‘Healthy’ but overweight?

[bumbleymummy]

Ok, I know this is a sensitive subject and I’m really not trying to upset or offend anyone. I just think it’s misleading when people say things like ‘ICU is filled with healthy under 60s’ or talk about a ‘healthy 40- something’ passing away and it turns out that person/a high proportion of those patients are very overweight. Are people who are clearly overweight actually ‘healthy’? I know it’s not the same as an underlying condition like diabetes or heart disease but we know that a high bmi puts people at greater risk of complications from coronavirus.

Before someone jumps on me, I’m not saying that someone’s life is of less value because they are overweight or have an underlying health condition. I’m just wondering if it’s accurate to say that they are ‘healthy’ when we are reporting figures and talking about risk.

Shit, risk of death increases by 40%! I'm disabled and as such am pretty immobile and my bmi is now 37 after losing two stone in the last year. I am so worried. I am doing intermittent fasting but it is coming off so much slower the more I lose. I'm only 33, I don't want to leave my kids without a mum. Knew I shouldn't have read this thread!

I totally agree that weight stigma can be really damaging and not conducive to empowering people to gain weight. BUT the fat positive movement is just part of the same post modern rhetoric as critical race theory and the whole gender identify debate. By which I mean something demonstrably untrue but which you are not allowed to question......

*lose not gain!

Is it a co-incidence that there were adverts for Noom weightloss in the column to the right of this post?

@PerpetuallyUnderwhelmed

I totally agree that weight stigma can be really damaging and not conducive to empowering people to gain weight. BUT the fat positive movement is just part of the same post modern rhetoric as critical race theory and the whole gender identify debate. By which I mean something demonstrably untrue but which you are not allowed to question......

That's the one.

What i always wonder is why I am not allowed to tell someone they're fat, but the world and their mate can make comments to me like "you're so thin, do you even eat" ... "Do you skip your meals or something '.... No I have an incurable bowel disease but apparently it's ok to say what you like to skinny people but can you imagine how much shit I would be given if I called someone fat

@Beebityboo
Please dont lead this thread discourage you. What you have achieved is already phenomenal. Any lb you lose is worth celebrating.

Weight is complex.

@Limer

Interesting thread. With regard to vaccination - there's clearly a case for vaccinating the obese and overweight first. Maybe the priority vaccination list should change to reflect this - for under 60s, vaccinate those with a higher BMI first?

So the under 60s who had a high BMI this time last year, but have taken heed of the warnings and worked hard to reduce it, are going to be punished for that by having to wait longer for their vaccine? Meanwhile, people who couldn't be bothered to take responsibility for their own health get theirs sooner.

Completely unfair - unless it's restricted to those people whose high BMI has a medical cause beyond their control.

Losing weight and keeping it off is a complex problem. No one size (pardon the pun) fits all.

But I don't see why we can't say that it isn't simple to 'just' lose weight but at the same time acknowledge how being overweight and in particular obese is a significant risk if you catch covid. It isn't and doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

I hope and pray that once we are though this pandemic we can have a grown up conversation about weight. There is certainly a strong link between CV19 and people's weight.

I agree that the media show people in hospital more and more and they are significantly overweight. It seems to be the norm now and yes - I agree media is not going to point out the obvious. There was a Mother on Breakfast TV this morning who had reacted to CV19 very badly (the lady with the young son who was the singer). No one would mention her weight quite understanably but it was there for all of us to see.

TheVanguardSix thank you for answering. That sounds very tough. Don't apologise for "ranting" I think you have a valid right to feel disappointed, afraid and resentful. It must be tough if you really care about someone to sit back and watch them destroying their health, knowing all the while that you may have to care for them because they for whatever reason seem to not care enough about themselves.

By not being allowed to have a dialogue about obesity and the risks that come with being so, we're enabling this elephant in the room.

I can't really put into words what an impact my obese husband's covid crisis had on us as a family. The pandora's box opened long ago. I've just been pretending it wasn't there. I can't ignore it now and the knock-on effect of his obesity is bigger than the problem itself.

If you are overweight and working on changing that, be proud, work hard, do it, and persevere. And if you hit the wall where you feel you can't do it, then try to do it for your family's sake if your own isn't enough.

You can’t be overweight and healthy. You can be overweight and fit. Being overweight means that your organs, joints etc are having to work harder than they were intended to. Plus there are about 13 cancers that an overweight person is likely to get. There is a link between Covid death and being overweight.

Any discussion about the risks of being overweight gets swamped by angry posters protesting that it is unacceptable to allude to this because:

• "A dr once told me that I am incredibly healthy even though I am overweight;"

-" I have a condition that makes it hard to lose weight;"

-" it's insensitive to mention this because bereaved families will see it as critical;"

• "I might have a BMI that indicates that I am overweight, but some people with a high BMI (usually professional sportspeople) are very fit;"

Some of these may be true, but arguably should not be allowed to silence the message that if you can do something to get your weight to a healthy level, now would be a good time to do it if you want to increase your risk of surviving Covid.

Minitheminx you're very kind. Thank you for being so understanding.
It is really, utterly soul-destroying, tbh. My brother was a fit and well young father of three who is now fighting stage 4 metastatic pancreatic cancer. We have a gene in my family (yay for bad genes!). So to watch someone fight a losing battle against something he could not have predicted or stopped makes my husband's unwillingness to fight something that he can totally reverse distressing. I live with a bad gene (probably several! ) but it gives me even more reason to try and make the most of my living day, for my kids' sake if for nothing else. Good health is a blessing. I wish people wouldn't treat it so carelessly.

A BMI of 35+ has been mentioned as increasing risk by 40%. Does anyone know what the risk factor is for a BMI 30 - 35 as this is also categorised as obese not overweight?

Being overweight is normalised, not just for adults but children. It’s getting worse with overweight parents passing on their habits to their children and on it goes. I do think society in general needs to reset its attitude to weight and the things that are making it more difficult for people to lose weight. This problem has crept up gradually over the past 25 years and we’re not going to turn the tide easily. Is is a difficult subject, but being overweight or obese contributes to so many health problems it does needs to be addressed. Maybe COVID will start that process now we have seen the contribution it has made to deaths during the pandemic.

You can’t be overweight and healthy.

You need to be clear about the difference between overweight and obese. Increasingly there are indicators that overweight may be healthier than the lower end of healthy weight.

All the covid studies I could find eg CDC, Gov , British Heart Foundation. Talk about the Covid risk in relation to BMI 30+. I cant find anything referring to BMI 20-30.

I do think if we are going to be talk about BMI and covid risk we need to be clear what we are talking about.

Including whether the definition of overweight is actually accurate or helpful.

Vanguard - I am so sorry, I sense your frustration. I dont want to talk about me and go off track but my DH has recently been diagnosised with Stage 4 cancer. He isnt overweight and he had no symptons. I am scared of the future. We have done everything right I feel.

Yet - when we were allowed to go shopping I would see overweight kids and the equally overweight parent queueing for a Macdonalds. Do I judge, yes I am afraid I do. If you are overweight it is almost always down to you and your personal choices. No one is forcing you to eat cream doughnuts or have fish and chips every Friday along with popcorn because you are bored during lockdown. Men knocking back pint after pint. Its become the norm. I sat next to a very large lad on the way back from the States a couple of years ago. I saw him literally forcing himself down the aisle of the plane and wished he wasnt going to sit next to me.

He did though and actually he was very nice but how did he get like this? As the flight was long he chatted away and said he had little in the way of self control. He was trying to get a girlfriend but was always seen as the fat friend (his words). I told him his life was up to him to live in the best way possible. All of it was under his control and that he could definitely make a difference.

Who knows whether he is still overweight but the fact he admitted he didnt like being overweight to a complete stranger and saying he wanted to do something about it makes me hopeful.

I honestly really really hope we can start to take some responsibility and not have a few mouthy people say you should celebrate being overweight and you are healthy

@SevenMelon

I think this just comes from different uses of the word “healthy” between doctors and the public. In the hospital, we use “healthy” to mean anyone independent and / or working full time and able to walk > around 500m.

In normal times, the majority of our patients are extremely frail and generally have carers / are in care homes.

This is a good point. I think I would tend to think of independence/walking ability as a measure of 'fitness' rather than 'healthy'. But then if someone is described as 'fit' I wouldn't think they were just able to walk over 500m unaided. It's a tricky one.

I noticed this last year
A lady died and the newspapers photos of her was taken 10 years ago with her kids and she was quite slim
When she actually passed away in March lshe was morbidly obese as I saw a different newspaper with a more recent picture

Weight loss is one of the only contributing factors (in the risk of complicated covid) you can do something about. It's a factor within our control

Mostly, yes, but despite the rare outbreak of common sense on the subject here, once the apologists arrive you'll see:

The standard "fck off"
You're fat shaming / don't understand / are a cnt
If weight loss was easy nobody would be obese
Plus a smorgasbord of excuses as to why it doesn't apply to them

As said, I sometimes wonder if it wouldn't be useful to include a few scare stories/adverts on the topic alongside the endless ones on Covid itself

Perhaps, if we talked more honestly about the impact of obesity on health - and the various causes - we could treat it more effectively.

The current government are very willing to discuss increases in NHS funding, but love to assign blame when it comes to addressing the social causes of bad health. (They have the same attitude when it comes to Covid rates - blame people for getting a coffee, don't mention low paid workers being forced to choose between eating and isolating).

You can’t be overweight and healthy.

Well, you can if you go by BMI! You can be into the overweight category of BMI and be perfectly healthy. Someone's organs aren't working harder because they have large thighs. You can be a bit 'overweight' and not even vaguely fat. It's well known that BMI isn't perfect

@Moonstone1234

Vanguard - I am so sorry, I sense your frustration. I dont want to talk about me and go off track but my DH has recently been diagnosised with Stage 4 cancer. He isnt overweight and he had no symptons. I am scared of the future. We have done everything right I feel.

Yet - when we were allowed to go shopping I would see overweight kids and the equally overweight parent queueing for a Macdonalds. Do I judge, yes I am afraid I do. If you are overweight it is almost always down to you and your personal choices. No one is forcing you to eat cream doughnuts or have fish and chips every Friday along with popcorn because you are bored during lockdown. Men knocking back pint after pint. Its become the norm. I sat next to a very large lad on the way back from the States a couple of years ago. I saw him literally forcing himself down the aisle of the plane and wished he wasnt going to sit next to me.

He did though and actually he was very nice but how did he get like this? As the flight was long he chatted away and said he had little in the way of self control. He was trying to get a girlfriend but was always seen as the fat friend (his words). I told him his life was up to him to live in the best way possible. All of it was under his control and that he could definitely make a difference.

Who knows whether he is still overweight but the fact he admitted he didnt like being overweight to a complete stranger and saying he wanted to do something about it makes me hopeful.

I honestly really really hope we can start to take some responsibility and not have a few mouthy people say you should celebrate being overweight and you are healthy

Moonstone, I haven't wanted to be overweight, and have wanted to do something about it all my life! That isn't enough, sadly. It's something which has the be the first and foremost thought in your mind at all times for the rest of your life. Any time I have let that slip, my weight has gone up.

For me to lose weight I have to prioritise that above every other thing in my life- my kids with SEN, my job, my husband, parents... everything. When I am distracted by- you know- everyday life, my weight goes up. When I'm totally focussed, it's like a disease of obsession and I start thinking about laxatives, stupid ideas like slicing fat off with a knife... self harming behaviours basically.

Ironically I am losing weight at the moment because with lockdown there are very few distractions. The only other time I've lost significant amounts of weight have been when I've been made redundant or suffered other ill health and been forced to stop and do nothing for a while.

I've had my excess weight pointed out to me from toddlerhood, teased about it as a teenager. The photos I look back at are clear, I wasn't overweight. Broadly built, like a tank in comparison with dainty girls, but not fat.

Those who are saying “my friend Sue is clinically obese but can run, has perfect blood pressure and cholesterol etc” are intimating that you can be obese and completely healthy but obesity is a health condition.
I am too big. I used the pandemic to push myself into losing weight. It’s hard. I’ve had ups and downs on the scales. I’m not perfect. I pass zero judgement on people who aren’t in the right place to tackle their weight (been there for so long!) but we need to be open and talk about it. Obesity is a risk factor for covid. People need to be informed. Whether they are able to act on it or not is a different factor. However, we cannot avoid the topic. It makes me feel deeply uncomfortable and sensitive but I know it’s important.