Do you feel sorry for Boris?

[User133847]

Seeing the headlines in the papers today and there seems a lot of sympathy for him. The front pages see him looking really forlorn and sorrow regarding the death toll.

When you think a year ago he was planning on ushering in what he deemed as a golden age of Britain. Now 12 months later it's in tatters.

I can understand the sympathy, but wonder whether a Labour PM would be offered the same.

@ShanghaiDiva My dh’s chinese colleagues sent us 350 masks in May last year
Similarly my DHs company received face masks in a Taiwanese suppliers shipment in early spring which we donated to a local care home. The world has been watching.

[quote trulydelicious]@ShanghaiDiva

curfew in Austria

Some posters seem to go into full blown panic attack when the word 'curfew' is mentioned here. Do you think it would have worked in the UK? It would have given the usual 'we've lost our human rights for ever' extremists even more ammunition. Dont' think so[/quote]
I think a curfew is a clear method of ensuring people are staying home as much as possible.

Many posters have mentioned on here that public compliance is an issue. This is one method used by other European countries and illustrates there are differences in approach within Europe.

Yes, I think you're exaggerating, trulydelicious.

I'm glad you called that quote from BoZo sexist and misogynistic, @GetOffYourHighHorse. That's exactly the type of person you're saying can do no wrong. Nice that you're aware that he does have his flaws.

@ShanghaiDiva

I think a curfew is a clear method of ensuring people are staying home as much as possible

I agree, I would have implemented a curfew, I have no problem with it

But I can see why the government have been reticent to do it IYSWIM

@NoWordForFluffy

Yes, I think you're exaggerating, trulydelicious.

I'm glad you called that quote from BoZo sexist and misogynistic, @GetOffYourHighHorse. That's exactly the type of person you're saying can do no wrong. Nice that you're aware that he does have his flaws.

Indeed. A direct quote from our prime minister demonstrating his contempt for women is deemed so offensive it has to be immediately deleted. Perhaps those of his supporters who recognised it as a quote hope by censoring it we will forget.

No, definitely not the same as any other European leader. Look at somewhere like Jersey. They appointed a senior epidemiologist in 2016 to plan and deliver a swift, science based approach to Coronavirus when it hit. That sits as a polar opposite to the U.K. government who buried the report and chose to reduce of our pandemic capacity and resources.

Japan is also entirely comparable. An island nation with greater population density. They were better prepared because of universal access to sufficient high quality healthcare.
Japan followed expert scientific advice. They instituted a special kind of contact tracing called “retrospective tracing.” This approach differs from standard methods that focus mainly on the period after a patient contracted the disease. With retrospective tracing, health workers try to ascertain a patient’s movements and interactions before they became infected. By mapping them and cross-referencing them with those of other infected people, tracers can identify common sources of infection—the people and places behind an infection cluster.
They gave clear and widespread unambiguous messaging on the Three Cs. Following declaration of a state of emergency 80 % of businesses shut voluntarily and restrictions could be lifted after about two months.
They have ultra fast antigen testing. They have readily available saliva testing. They have extensively promoted advanced teleworking.

No, Japanese success is not entirely down to bowing instead of handshakes.

Look at Iceland. European. Island country. Less than 7 deaths per 100k population. They were pro-active and responded long before the virus appeared on their shores. They tracked every single contact who had spent more than ten minutes with the first infected person. They found every single person and had them in quarantine within 24 hours.

Remind me - how much did our Dido Harding track and trace cost compared to other nations? How efficient and effective is it? How was the contract awarded?

This is an excellent summary of how some other island nations responded.

Our Prime Minister's failures and lack of foresight have led directly to the UK having the highest per capita death rate in the world.

Indeed.
A direct quote from our prime minister demonstrating his contempt for women is deemed so offensive it has to be immediately deleted.
Perhaps those of his supporters who recognised it as a quote hope by censoring it we will forget.

What amuses me that little bit more, is that @GetOffYourHighHorse requested that her post be deleted, rather than MNHQ doing it. She clearly didn't want anybody seeing what she'd said about BoZo's quote.

I think it is really important that those words are out there.
People are accusing posters of racism towards Johnson, defending him and suggesting he is worthy of sympathy and that he is doing a good job.
As offensive as those words were, Johnson said them, not the poster who quoted him.
Johnson said those words because that is what he thinks about women, and women should know this, not have it hidden from them because seeing his words on a MN thread is offensive.
Do people think that someone who holds those views about women can really do a good job in representing us?

I don't think we are ever going to get evidence of racist language used about Johnson from PM from @trulydelicious

It is important to give a reason for such a serious claim.

If you can't find the post to back up your claim could you at least retract your statement?

@trulydelicious See some lovely examples on this thread of personal hate and utter prejudice

May I refer you back to my earlier post that showed evidence that people who attend public schools and Oxbridge are disproportionately represented as MPs and in the Cabinet.

Of the 56 PMs the country has had 29 have gone to Oxford. 20 attended Eton.

Going to fee paying schools puts people in a privileged position for holding positions of authority later (see also legal profession and army). Johnson attended Eton. It is not prejudiced to point out that his background has been advantageous for him - or do you really think this didn’t affect his life chances? Or were you referring to something else in relation to ‘utter prejudice’?

Over 100,000 families have lost a family member, there are a lot of sad (sometimes angry) grieving people in the UK (not just people playing party politics as some like to make out). Johnson says he takes responsibility for the Government’s decision making and record on pandemic response - this is part of the reason you will see anger directed towards him. I’m sure he would have preferred fewer deaths (as would we all) but they are a sad reality of the situation. Likewise in other countries with high Covid death rates (that @GetOffYourHighHorse regularly reminds everyone of) there is anger and upset towards their political leaders. Wouldn’t it be odd if there wasn’t in the UK? To be honest, given how bad our death rate has been, and continues to be, I’m surprised there isn’t more protest. I think we are collectively so glad there is a vaccination programme and the Government have delivered well on that.

I think we are collectively so glad there is a vaccination programme and the Government have delivered well on that.

I'm not sure we can actually say that yet, given the choice to delay the second dose. Yes, I agree that giving the first dose is going well, but the 12 week delay between doses may well cause issues. If it doesn't (and everyone gets their second dose as per our 12 week schedule), then I will applaud the government for buying the vaccine, the logistics team for delivering it, and the NHS for its logistics in administering it.

@derxa, you asked who sorted the EU vaccine issue if not Boris. The EU rowed back from their threat (not defending them, they’ve behaved terribly) because they didn’t inform their member state (Ireland) that they could trigger something which had serious consequences for them as well as NI.
Of course BJ had to speak to them but clearly there was only one option open to him - to reason with them, and thank god he didn’t make it worse. Do I believe this was down to his natural negotiation skills and diplomacy? No, he has form for going in all guns blazing but on this occasion thankfully he didn’t.
I’ll post this again to point out that not 2 weeks ago he said he would not hesitate to trigger Article 16 if he felt it was in our interest, so forgive me if I don’t see him as the big hero who saved the day against the big bad EU. He was lucky that they blinked first. There’s video of him saying it too in case I get accused of putting words in his mouth.

amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/watch-we-will-have-no-hesitation-in-triggering-article-16-if-necessary-says-boris-johnson-39964412.html?__twitter_impression=true

[quote mouldygrapes]@derxa, you asked who sorted the EU vaccine issue if not Boris. The EU rowed back from their threat (not defending them, they’ve behaved terribly) because they didn’t inform their member state (Ireland) that they could trigger something which had serious consequences for them as well as NI.
Of course BJ had to speak to them but clearly there was only one option open to him - to reason with them, and thank god he didn’t make it worse. Do I believe this was down to his natural negotiation skills and diplomacy? No, he has form for going in all guns blazing but on this occasion thankfully he didn’t.
I’ll post this again to point out that not 2 weeks ago he said he would not hesitate to trigger Article 16 if he felt it was in our interest, so forgive me if I don’t see him as the big hero who saved the day against the big bad EU. He was lucky that they blinked first. There’s video of him saying it too in case I get accused of putting words in his mouth.

amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/watch-we-will-have-no-hesitation-in-triggering-article-16-if-necessary-says-boris-johnson-39964412.html?__twitter_impression=true[/quote]
Thanks for answering my rhetorical question.

Look @trulydelicious if you've no problems with lying, I've no problems highlighting the fact that you're lying.

Deal?

[quote trulydelicious]@Stellaris22

It's a very serious allegation

True. It's even more seriuos to be racist[/quote]
I completely agree. Perhaps you and the PMs other supporters would like to comment on his own racism and explain how you are able to square this with your support of him?

I'm afraid that, like you, I can't offer specific examples of his racist remarks, as direct quotes from the PM are deleted from this thread. However a quick google gives a number of examples.

I am genuinely curious as to how people manage to hold strong anti racist and anti sexist views while still believing Johnson to be fit for office.

@Chloemol

Yes, he’s taken a lot of flack over decisions made at a point in time, with information available at that point in time, that’s subsequently changed, but according to lots of people he should have been a mind reader, known it was going to change and made decisions on what he didn’t know at the time

Yes he could have done some stuff better, closing borders for one in the first lockdown, but it’s a balancing act between health and economy

Look on previous posts here on how the economy should be opened up and lockdown stopped, or how weshould have stricter lockdowns,

He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t

But we also have one of the worst economic records in Europe during the pandemic, as well as the highest death rate in the world so he’s failed on both accounts. He’s ignored scientific advice. Other countries have managed a lot better than us, some with far fewer resources. So no I don’t feel sorry for him at all.

'What amuses me that little bit more, is that @GetOffYourHighHorse requested that her post be deleted, rather than MNHQ doing it. She clearly didn't want anybody seeing what she'd said about BoZo's quote.'

My post included a deleted post. I didn't see the deleted twaddle included a quote from 'bozo'.

Glad deletions 'amuse' you though. I suppose it is lockdown entertainment is thin on the ground, but even so.

Yep. I’d feel sorry for any PM having to deal with this.

1. never extract quotes without reading the full articles
2. Christmas -at the second briefing it was very clear about the new information on the variant and they did say look at your own individual risks for your family within the rules. Just because you can does not mean you have to . Which is exactly what we did . Why did other families ignore that clear advice ? I don’t know , perhaps they believe the MSM too much .
3. Managers in health trusts get paid more than the PM so perhaps they should be more accountable as well 4 ) personally I agree that mistakes were made but I don’t think the blame is entirely down to Boris . There is still a lot to learn about this virus and the mutations . But also about the attitudes of the British public to rules and breaking rules . I have been very shocked by the attitude of some people in general and the fact that so many people just carry in as if nothing has happened . Perhaps his main faults were thinking people would have common sense and take their own decisions?

'I think it’s a mistake to discount China'

It isn't a mistake, surely we all know due to secrecy and lies they aren't reliable sources of information.

'Yes, he’s taken a lot of flack over decisions made at a point in time, with information available at that point in time, that’s subsequently changed, but according to lots of people he should have been a mind reader, known it was going to change and made decisions on what he didn’t know at the time'

Exactly. I mean maybe the scientists have been giving him wrong advice but we can't blame him for listening and acting on what he was told. I do wonder at PHE's ability, there was a programme on a while ago called the Salisbury poisonings and the PHE leader in the area was a shambles who kept crying. Hopefully it wasn't representative of the organisation as a whole. We'll find out in the inquiry that will follow. Lets hope NIHP will be a more efficient organisation.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'What amuses me that little bit more, is that @GetOffYourHighHorse requested that her post be deleted, rather than MNHQ doing it. She clearly didn't want anybody seeing what she'd said about BoZo's quote.'

My post included a deleted post. I didn't see the deleted twaddle included a quote from 'bozo'.

Glad deletions 'amuse' you though. I suppose it is lockdown entertainment is thin on the ground, but even so.

How could you not have seen the Johnson quote in the post? The Johnson quote was the entire post! Perhaps you mean you didn't recognise the comment as having been made by the PM when you rightly condemned it as twaddle? Interesting,as I would guess that had it been made clear the quote was from the PM rather than the posters own view, it would have been ignored by his supporters. However I ask again, now you know he said this offensive 'twaddle', how do you square this with believing him fit for office?

This article demonstrates exactly the kind of person BoZo is.

Are you actually going to condemn him for his sexism, racism, homophobia and misogyny, @GetOffYourHighHorse, or does he get off with it because you can't bring yourself to criticise him (despite having criticised his words in your deleted-on-your-request post)? You say you didn't spot that the twaddle included a quote from BoZo. That was the entire post, there was nothing else in it.

Would you have asked for your post to be deleted if the quote was from a politician you didn't like? Or would you have kept it up to illustrate your contempt for that person's sexist and misogynistic views? 🤔🤔 It's your hypocrisy and desperate attempts to support BoZo which amuse me, which is the only reason you had it deleted, I reckon.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'it is a very serious allegation which is why it needs to be backed up'

Oh calm down are you Laurence fox?

Tbh racist accusations are chucked about frequently on mn anyway, you really need to toughen up.

I would have said criticism about him is often biased and prejudiced because he is posh. Innit.

Oh fine. People who object to racism need to toughen up. You’re really showing your true colours here. And I see @trulydelicious still hasn’t managed to find any evidence of racism towards Johnson on this thread. What a pair you are.

Interesting,as I would guess that had it been made clear the quote was from the PM rather than the posters own view, it would have been ignored by his supporters.

Exactly this, @5128gap.

@ShanghaiDiva 20000 was best case, 500,000 was worst case without restrictions