Do you feel sorry for Boris?

[User133847]

Seeing the headlines in the papers today and there seems a lot of sympathy for him. The front pages see him looking really forlorn and sorrow regarding the death toll.

When you think a year ago he was planning on ushering in what he deemed as a golden age of Britain. Now 12 months later it's in tatters.

I can understand the sympathy, but wonder whether a Labour PM would be offered the same.

[quote trulydelicious]@GetOffYourHighHorse

The problem is the virus, not Boris Johnson. All western leaders have had similar tragic deaths and infections rates. All of Europe have restrictions

Exactly. However, it's convenient for some to pretend they don't understand this[/quote]
Except it’s not true. Third highest death rate relative to population in the world. Worse even than the US.

www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

[quote trulydelicious]@GetOffYourHighHorse

The problem is the virus, not Boris Johnson. All western leaders have had similar tragic deaths and infections rates. All of Europe have restrictions

Exactly. However, it's convenient for some to pretend they don't understand this[/quote]
But that is not the case. Every country has been affected by the virus, but death rates are not the same everywhere, ergo action taken/not taken affects the outcome.

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Choose your stats. UK Deaths 1500 per million, similar to US 1300 per mill, Italy 1454 per million, czechia 1500 per million, less than Belgium 1800 per million.

All tragic and I'm not using them as a crass competition just to say similar areas/cultures and demographics have suffered similarly. Germany has been reporting nearly 1000 deaths a day.

We also have had a superspreading variant, 25000 deaths since November.

We also have had a superspreading variant, 25000 deaths since November

We also had Christmas mixing, schools not allowed to close, Christmas shopping, no border control. And it’s actually 50k dead since the 11th November. That is not simply on the new variant

And (once again) - comparing other countries who’ve also done badly does not absolve or excuse the way our govt have handled it. Are you saying they couldn’t have done things differently to the US, Belgium etc if they’d wanted to?

[quote trulydelicious]@GetOffYourHighHorse

The problem is the virus, not Boris Johnson. All western leaders have had similar tragic deaths and infections rates. All of Europe have restrictions

Exactly. However, it's convenient for some to pretend they don't understand this[/quote]
Europe is hard to compare because it’s a continent with land borders.
A better comparison is Japan.
Japan is a more densely populated island with a larger population.
It has far lower mortality rates. Far lower nosocomial rates. Better outcomes.

The U.K. despite being a small island has the high mortality rate in the world.
The U.K. has fewer beds per capita in intensive care units.

@CherryRoulade

A better comparison is Japan

You cannot compare the highly disciplined and methodical population of Japan with the UK (reckless raving, endless excuses not to wear masks, etc)

Also genetically different

'A better comparison is Japan. Japan is a more densely populated island with a larger population.'

Apparently we can't compare because mumsnetters on here have decreed it to be so, but yes Japan is interesting. They didn't shut borders early and have been slack on testing so it does seem odd. Maybe we'll find as discussed here that there is some immunity from past exposure to similar virus or perhaps social reasons have played a part. Maybe the virus only targets some ethnicities..

Anyway, as I've said a few times I think it is surely more relevant to compare like for like cultures and countries. So again, western Europe and the UK all struggling pretty similarly.

I used to be really good at that when I was a kid. The trick is to look more sorry than everyone else, and let the one with the nervous laugh carry the van.

A very, very, very tiny bit, just lately. When he appeared on Who Do You Think You Are, it became very clear that he comes from a very long line of people whose fortunes turned to shit. He seems to be doing a phenomenal job in carrying on that legacy. I expect sometimes he wishes he was still stuck on that zip wire.

I liked him as a TV buffoon. Not as a prime minister.

U.K. has highest excess death rate, highest mortality per capita, highest death relative to historical average.

We really don’t come out we’ll when compared to other G20s. The government could have prevented many deaths and enabled greater freedoms as an island nation. It was a political decision not to.
They consciously choose to ignore the evidence and expert advice.

Where is teach and trace and that 20 billion now?

Where is teach and trace and that 20 billion now?

Test and trace appears to be a distant memory since this lock down started. I guess most of that money is in Baroness Harding’s bank account.

The irony is if it really was “NHS” test & trace it would be subject to much more scrutiny as a service run by a public body.
As it’s really Serco test & trace there is very little accountability

@VinylDetective

Where is teach and trace and that 20 billion now?

Test and trace appears to be a distant memory since this lock down started. I guess most of that money is in Baroness Harding’s bank account.

I expect we'll find out exactly where it went in about 10 years time when the public enquiry presents it's findings. Won't get any of it back though, bastards.

'Test and trace appears to be a distant memory since this lock down started. I guess most of that money is in Baroness Harding’s bank account'

www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-and-infographics/nhs-test-and-trace-performance-tracker

'Looking at contact tracing, 87% of cases passed to the system were reached by Test and Trace, as were 93% of contacts (similar proportions to previous weeks), but the percentage of cases reporting close contacts has been falling since the start of lockdown, to 75% of cases from 80% two weeks ago.'

93% of contacts traced.

Ah well, at least he calmly and politely sorted the EU out last night. You really should give him a bit of credit occasionally.

Good of you to cherry pick the positives from that article and ignore the negatives

Furthermore, the average number of contacts reported per case has been slowly falling in recent weeks, down from 2.5 contacts per case at the start of December to 2.0 reported this week. This includes both the week of Christmas and the following week both having fewer contacts per case than the week ending 23 December, despite easing of social restrictions over Christmas itself.
Whilst some of this decline may be explained by increased social restrictions, it remains likely that some cases are not reporting all of their contacts. There are many reasons for this, including people unwilling to place others who they live or work with under a legal duty to isolate, particularly in circumstances where that means the contact may be unable to work or fulfil caring responsibilities. Such circumstances are known to be barriers to complying with self-isolation guidance, and can be overcome with increasing the availability of financial and practical support

Who is refusing to provide increased financial and practical support for those who need to self isolate?

Ah well, at least he calmly and politely sorted the EU out last night

Give over with your schoolgirl crush. I cannot see any reports that this is singlehandedly down to BJ.
Both he and the Irish taoiseach spoke to Ursula VdL, and even the northern Irish lot got involved... yes BJ clearly had a part to play but to suggest it’s all on him (as you did above) is just not true

'Who is refusing to provide increased financial and practical support for those who need to self isolate?'

Didn't you know there is financial support for those isolating . Do watch the news occasionally.

'Give over with your schoolgirl crush. I cannot see any reports that this is singlehandedly down to BJ.'

Oh dear, 'schoolgirl crush' . It stings doesn't it when he is praised for how he handles things. This could have gone horribly wrong if he'd gone in all guns blazing like clumsy Nicola would have.

I don’t think he deserves any praise for getting it right on the rare occasions he manages it. It’s his bloody job to get it right. It’s a real indication of how shockingly he normally performs that we’re invited to praise him for not fucking up.

There’s only one Tory who’s coming out of this debacle well and that’s Sunak, who hasn’t put a foot wrong since last March. I’m more than happy to praise him.

Didn't you know there is financial support for those isolating . Do watch the news occasionally

Follow your own advice on that! The vast majority of people are not getting any support and that system is quite frankly inadequate. People cannot afford to not work for 10 days and £500 won’t cut it for most. www.bbc.com/news/health-55727196

And as for “it stings” - what stings is people giving him credit for things he has a) not done and b) refusing to see any negatives in him at all.
Remember Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe? That’s what happens when he goes in all guns blazing

Ah well, at least he calmly and politely sorted the EU out last night. You really should give him a bit of credit occasionally

@GetOffYourHighHorse you do realise that’s his job? Not denying he’s done it properly in this instance but the bar for praise is much higher than ‘just not made things worse’.

'I don’t think he deserves any praise for getting it right on the rare occasions he manages it. It’s his bloody job to get it right'

Oh I see! So when he does well, the vaccine rollout, furlough (which i think he'll have been involved in, Sunak doesn't act independently y'know) and now putting the EU back in their box it's everyone else's doing..yet when you decide it's gone wrong it's all his fault. Got it. Not even slightly to do with the public's shit compliance? oh nooooo.

Your and mouldie's inability to scrutinise would really be amusing if it wasn't such a serious subject.

I'm happy to criticise anyone when they fail but again, our sad and grim stats are not dissimilar to surrounding countries.

Oh give over.

The vaccine roll out’s gone well, it’s been acknowledged. No, I don’t think Johnson can take any credit for Sunak’s work beyond choosing the right person for the job. And he did what you’d expect any PM to do as a minimum with the EU.

Then we move to the list I posted twice and which you’ve ignored twice. A list of incompetence which has resulted in tens of thousands of deaths. Just because some other countries have been almost as bad doesn’t excuse it. We’re supposed to be “worldbeating”. Shame that has to apply to the number of people who’ve died.

Your and mouldie's inability to scrutinise would really be amusing if it wasn't such a serious subject

Err, I think you’ll find we are the ones scrutinising (do look it up if you’re not sure what it means).

I'm happy to criticise anyone when they fail but again, our sad and grim stats are not dissimilar to surrounding countries

This just points out your lack of scrutiny- because other countries have done badly you won’t look more closely at why we have

And as @VinylDetective says, you’ve ignored several of our points

And here’s what your hero said about Article 16 and Northern Ireland just 2 weeks ago

amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/watch-we-will-have-no-hesitation-in-triggering-article-16-if-necessary-says-boris-johnson-39964412.html?__twitter_impression=true

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'I don’t think he deserves any praise for getting it right on the rare occasions he manages it. It’s his bloody job to get it right'

Oh I see! So when he does well, the vaccine rollout, furlough (which i think he'll have been involved in, Sunak doesn't act independently y'know) and now putting the EU back in their box it's everyone else's doing..yet when you decide it's gone wrong it's all his fault. Got it. Not even slightly to do with the public's shit compliance? oh nooooo.

Your and mouldie's inability to scrutinise would really be amusing if it wasn't such a serious subject.

I'm happy to criticise anyone when they fail but again, our sad and grim stats are not dissimilar to surrounding countries.

Isn’t it the govt’s responsibility to ensure compliance? Either through fines, curfews, checking on those who are self isolating, permits needed for travel..? Austria has a curfew. Friends in Italy last year could not visit the forest they could see from the apartment window as they would be stopped by the police. My friend in Australia was contacted by the police during her isolation period. I seem to recall permits needed for travel in Spain last year.

@ShanghaiDiva

Either through fines, curfews, checking on those who are self isolating, permits needed for travel

I would have implemented much stricter measures. But I can see why the government have tried to hold back (so far). Some people are so self-absorbed and ridiculous that they would have ended up blaming those in charge even more rather than taking responsibility for their own actions stupidity

Some people are so self-absorbed and ridiculous that they would have ended up blaming those in charge even more rather than taking responsibility for their own actions stupidity

The things that have made this disease far worse than necessary in the UK lie only in the government’s hands.

I have obeyed every single rule in lockdown. I don’t see anyone indoors apart from my husband, I do a sanitised and masked supermarket shop every ten days or so and leave the house once a day to walk the dog. What more do you want of me?

The government is to blame for:

Not closing our borders
Allowing the Cheltenham Festival
Not locking down at the beginning of March
PPE shortage last year
Flooding care homes with untested hospital patients
Spending £££££ on Nightingale hospitals we couldn’t staff
Not providing an efficient test and track system
Paying people to eat out
Allowing schools to go back for one day after Christmas

How is any of that my responsibility?