Do you feel sorry for Boris?

[User133847]

Seeing the headlines in the papers today and there seems a lot of sympathy for him. The front pages see him looking really forlorn and sorrow regarding the death toll.

When you think a year ago he was planning on ushering in what he deemed as a golden age of Britain. Now 12 months later it's in tatters.

I can understand the sympathy, but wonder whether a Labour PM would be offered the same.

@IncludeWomenInTheSequeltoo bloody right. NHS and other public sector health/care staff are not heroes. They are doing their jobs in incredibly difficult and emotionally draining circumstances. Showing appreciation is great ( I always send a card and a small gift after each hospital stay and give our nurse a present every Christmas for example) but what they need is decent working conditions, decent pay with annual increases, adequate on the job training, political support and not tosses making it up as they go along.

Governments are supposed to PLAN for the unforeseen emergencies just as each LA has an emergency plan for a major terrorist incident, floods, major RTA for example. Which is why the people flooded out last week did have somewhere to go even if just a sports hall. The government should also have in place plans for pandemics. We had a pandemic in 1918-20. They should have learned from that but as it was a Liberal PM at that time maybe Boris doesn't think he needs to

@Jellybaby4

Yes, I do, a lot of these posts are pretty nasty really. Okay so mistakes have been made and missed, but god, what an awful job hes had, cant imagine the pressure and stress on him.

He wanted the job, a job he is clearly unsuitable for. He deserves every single word of censure on this thread.

It's not just a case of "silly man, he should have followed the experts' advice!" The trouble is, he DID follow the experts' advice, as it was then. Everyone seems to have conveniently memory-holed this, but back in spring 2020, public health experts, the WHO and the quality broadsheet media were all on the side of keeping borders open and against wearing masks.

And yet the countries where their public health experts were recommending closing the border, and borders were duly closed, the infection and death rates are significantly lower.

@Jellybaby4, really. You didn’t think that the help out to eat out scheme might have increased contact therefore increasing?

You don’t think that allowing people to mix at Christmas was a recipe for disaster? And don’t forget originally it was going to be over 5 days, not just the one day. Pretty much everyone was saying was a terrible idea that was.

You don’t think shaking hands with people was covid was a bad idea? That all these things were ok at the time? That you couldn’t see what would happen?

Then thank god you’re not in the running for the job, you’d be just as bad. Thankfully there are some people who can think ahead and think of the future, let’s hope we get one of those, not another Boris.

Having an opinion is all well and good, but you can’t run a country on opinion, you need evidence, facts and a willingness to listen to people.

'It's not just a case of "silly man, he should have followed the experts' advice!" The trouble is, he DID follow the experts' advice, as it was then. Everyone seems to have conveniently memory-holed this, but back in spring 2020, public health experts, the WHO and the quality broadsheet media were all on the side of keeping borders open and against wearing masks.'

Exactly.

This Christmas thing is pathetic. We all knew exactly what the risks were. Most places were in tier 3 or 4 so we all knew household mixing should be kept restricted. Yes they reduced the 'allowed' 5 days to 1 day but anyone with a brain cell knew to keep it to one household only. As Whitty said at the time just because you can doesn't mean you should.

The government of course have to take responsibility for any failures but the public has to also take responsibility for ignoring the rules in many cases, there has been blatant flouting which is often discussed widely and proudly on mn.

@Jellybaby4

Yes, I do, a lot of these posts are pretty nasty really. Okay so mistakes have been made and missed, but god, what an awful job hes had, cant imagine the pressure and stress on him.

He is the Prime Minister. That comes with heavy responsibility- feast or famine, good times or pandemic. He is someone who clearly wanted to have all the good bits and not deal with the bad bits. It’s not nasty to point out he’s done an appalling job and hundreds of thousands of people have lost their lives. Yes it is a very tough job, but time and again, experience of SARS pandemics from Asia has shown you need to act fast and go hard with this type of virus. He didn’t, despite expert evidence over and over again, so here we are. He had to own that

'You don’t think shaking hands with people was covid was a bad idea?'

When he said that he went on to say handwashing is key. Of course he shouldn't have said it as so many thick people take everything out of context but he said he'd been shaking hands at a hospital but had of course washed his hands.

The fact remains that Johnson didn't outright cancel mixing over Christmas and values being 'liked' more than saving lives and reducing pressure on the NHS.

People shouldn't have mixed, but the government should have banned mixing but didn't despite advice.

He is not fit to be PM and took holidays rather than attend meetings.

Even now he is taking a trip to Scotland which is the wrong message to send to the public. He and the government have learned nothing. Or, they know the Cummings effect on encouraging rule breaking.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'You don’t think shaking hands with people was covid was a bad idea?'

When he said that he went on to say handwashing is key. Of course he shouldn't have said it as so many thick people take everything out of context but he said he'd been shaking hands at a hospital but had of course washed his hands.

The mixed messaging was an utter public health failure.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'You don’t think shaking hands with people was covid was a bad idea?'

When he said that he went on to say handwashing is key. Of course he shouldn't have said it as so many thick people take everything out of context but he said he'd been shaking hands at a hospital but had of course washed his hands.

The public health message was never “it’s ok to shake hands if you wash them after”. It was “keep your distance from people AND wash your hands”. Therefore he should never have said it, it makes him look completely ridiculous. His line was “you’ll be pleased to know I shook hands with everyone” which reflects that he wasn’t taking it seriously at the time, on the back of having skipped 5 COBR meetings

It’s not just about Christmas though is it? It’s the repeating the same mistakes.

I can understand mistakes at first (even though there was an exercise that took place a few years ago and recommendations were made) but to be still fucking it up now when, I’m sorry, it is so bloody obvious.

For him to go on tv and said they’ve done all they can is sickening and quite frankly an insult.

Exactly.

Repeating mistakes of sending people from hospitals to care homes.

PM visiting Scotland which is not needed and sending the wrong message. Learned nothing from the Cummings castle trip and the effect this has on affecting public behaviour.

'Repeating mistakes of sending people from hospitals to care homes.'

Patients were discharged from hospitals yes. High risk areas.They couldn't be kept in hospitals until wide spread testing was available. Care homes had to follow strict infection prevention and control measures as they do with any discharge in an outbreak of anything virus, norovirus or whatever. Some care homes failed at this. Why hadn't care home owners ensured all their staff were adequately trained in infection control?

Ffs @GetOffYourHighHorse, still blaming care homes for government policy? You’ve had this argument shot down in flames countless times by me and many other posters. Why do you persist with it? And why are you so intent on defending this government’s utter incompetence?

Only a tiny bit, he's made far too many poor decisions. That is not a political comment, I'd made the same had a Labour politician made poor decisions.

However I think the reason he has made so many poor decisions is partly because he's a conservative prime minister. There is not a choice between the economy and health, you cant protect the economy while the virus runs riot. Tories are less likely to accept that than a Labour prime minister.

A feel a tiny bit sorry because any other Tory politician would probably have made an even bigger mess of it. He inherited the underfunding of the NHS by successive tory governments and the "there is no such thing as society" from Thatcher legitimising greed.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'You don’t think shaking hands with people was covid was a bad idea?'

When he said that he went on to say handwashing is key. Of course he shouldn't have said it as so many thick people take everything out of context but he said he'd been shaking hands at a hospital but had of course washed his hands.

Let's just remind ourselves of the PM at the press conference in March last year telling the public we'd be' pleased to know' he'd been shaking hands with Covid patients. All delivered in his usual clear and direct way:

You are right @GetOffYourHighHorse there are quite a few thick people around, crying shame is that the PM is one of them.

Still, at least he's travelling up here today surrounded by staff to tell me that he thinks my democratic vote shouldn't count.

They can all mix with people up here and spread the virus, or take it back home with them as a souvenir of their completely non-essential trip.

@VinylDetective

Ffs *@GetOffYourHighHorse*, still blaming care homes for government policy? You’ve had this argument shot down in flames countless times by me and many other posters. Why do you persist with it? And why are you so intent on defending this government’s utter incompetence?

Oh vinyl do calm down. We are all allowed opinions on here.

Care homes should have used strict infection prevention and control measures on anyone discharged from hospital in a pandemic. Of course there will still have been some cases but if we are going to hold the government to account then care home owners (who charge a fortune and should therefore invest in training) with lots of tragic deaths also need to be held to account for their failings. These are private companies that have accountability and responsibility too.

No I do not. Boris is at best totally incompetent, at worst criminally negligent.

Right up there with Trump, Putin and all the other cretinous, self serving politicians arseholes

Care homes should have used strict infection prevention and control measures on anyone discharged from hospital in a pandemic

And at the time there was no PPE. Don’t you remember people literally trying to make do with binbags? There was no PPE because the govt ran down the stockpile that they are responsible for keeping in case of a national pandemic, then gave all the contracts to their dodgy cronies who couldn’t deliver

I’m perfectly calm, thank you @GetOffYourHighHorse.

There was a national shortage of PPE at the time, there wasn’t even enough for the NHS. I must have pointed this out to you at least a dozen times and provided you with links, yet you still persist in this nonsense. And have the audacity to accuse other people of a lack of intelligence.

'Let's just remind ourselves of the PM at the press conference'

Yes, 'washing your hands is the crucial thing'.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Let's just remind ourselves of the PM at the press conference'

Yes, 'washing your hands is the crucial thing'.

In that case why was stringent infection control and PPE needed?

I can't believe people are saying that he followed the science. It's widely accepted that he did not follow the science and that the first lockdown was too late. He ignored expert advisers again and again and the delay meant that the virus had spread to various parts of the country and was seeded in the population, making it very difficult to stop. Research has subsequently shown that over 20,000 deaths could have been prevented had he locked down a week earlier.

Care homes needed to have a protective bubble over them and this was evident from the disaster happening in Italy. It was obvious that the elderly were particularly vulnerable. In order to free up beds, approx 25,000 untested patients were moved from hospital into care homes.

Although the first lockdown brought cases down, it was lifted too early. Pubs, restaurants and cinemas were opened allowing the virus to further spread. Around 4,000 infections a day were happening at this time while people, encouraged by the government, went out to get haircuts and eat. Two metre social distancing regulations had been dropped and people were encouraged to go back to work.

This was to 'save the economy' with a virus raging. The test and track system didn't work. Borders weren't closed and new infections were coming into the country all the time. There were no quarantine rules or testing at airports. Students were going back to universities and children were mixing at school. You can certainly blame people for not taking the virus seriously enough but look at all the mixed messaging and members of the government taking no notice of the rules.

In September, Sage warned that there was going to be another wave and advised the government to lockdown which was ignored. Ignoring that advice, ie not following the science, was a massive mistake and scientists are sure that the tier system led to the new variant. Non essential shops started to open after the November lockdown and people started Christmas shopping in London - you saw the pictures of the huge crowds in the West End.

It has been widely acknowledged that the government had no strategy for dealing with this, so don't say that they were 'following the science' - they were not. If they were, they would have locked down quicker in March as they were advised. They would not have ignored warnings about so called herd immunity being a disaster and they would have listened to warnings from what was happening in other countries. They didn't. A whole family were wiped out after meeting on Christmas day.

Boris has blundered about and lurched from crisis to crisis from day one. When he realised that he was not up for the job, he should have resigned and handed it over to someone more capable. He didn't and yesterday nearly 2,000 people died.

He is up to his knees in corpses and keeps going. Those saying he's doing the best he can under difficult circumstances are like self indulgent mothers saying "Yeah but he's a good boy really" after their son has gone on a killing spree.

Care homes should have used strict infection prevention and control measures on anyone discharged from hospital in a pandemic. Of course there will still have been some cases but if we are going to hold the government to account then care home owners (who charge a fortune and should therefore invest in training) with lots of tragic deaths also need to be held to account for their failings. These are private companies that have accountability and responsibility too

What do you know about the care home sector?

Very little I suspect. Local authorities are forced to pay little to care homes because central government do not give them enough money to pay for adult social care. They cannot afford to run many homes themselves.

So, again, we trace the poor covid outcomes to central government austerity.